What they mean when they talk about ‘white people’

The BBC’s ‘Karens’ podcast revealed the class hatred that lurks behind wokeness.

Brendan O'Neill
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Topics Politics UK

It’s tough for posh people these days. They can’t go around insulting riff-raff like they used to. Looking down one’s nose, Edith Sitwell-style, at horny-handed plebs and vulgar poor women is no longer acceptable. You’ll be called a snob. But fear not: the upper-middle classes have found a new, politically correct way to achieve the dizzy moral thrill they used to get from openly sneering at rough blokes and foul-tongued women in the streets. It’s called wokeness.

Wokeness increasingly looks like class hatred in disguise. Exhibit A: the podcast that BBC Sounds put out yesterday featuring two plummy women called Lotte and Amelia (I wish I was making this up) mocking less-educated, less well-off white women who these days go by the name ‘Karen’.

‘Karen’, as should be clear to everyone now, is a female version of ‘gammon’. Just as academic leftists and Corbynista trustafarians took to referring to lower-middle-class and working-class men who support Brexit as pigs – which is what gammon is – so this same constituency now look upon lower-status white women who are not fully up-to-speed on all the nutty woke language about race and other stuff as ‘Karens’.

Lotte (Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley, a history lecturer) and Amelia (Amelia Dimoldenberg, a YouTuber, lol) were on the BBC podcast No Country for Young Women. They were asked how white women can avoid becoming ‘Karens’. The use of Karen as an insult originated in America to describe low-status women who have unfashionable haircuts (a kind of blonde helmet hairdo) and who love complaining to the manager. It’s a prejudice, in other words, beloved of correct-thinking leftists and time-rich liberals. Lotte and Amelia said white women can avoid becoming Karens by educating themselves and shutting the hell up.

‘Educate yourself’, said Amelia. ‘Read some books’, she continued, and giggled as she said it – that was no doubt the endorphin of moral superiority kicking in. Note the casual assumption that those people who disagree with the enlightened likes of Amelia and Charlotte are simply uneducated and must try to elevate themselves to our level. Classic, undiluted snobbery. Charlotte said white women should ‘try not to be defensive about your whiteness’ and instead should ‘think critically about your identity and your privilege’. ‘Get out of the way’, she concluded. ‘Yeah, basically leave’, agreed Amelia, and they all laughed. It’s hilarious, you see: well-educated middle-class women telling lesser women to fuck off.

There were so many striking things about the podcast, which caused a huge backlash when it was released online and trailed on Twitter. The first is that these are two white women telling other white women how to behave. This is a brilliant insight into what wokeness has become. It is essentially high-achieving, self-regarding whites issuing moral condemnations of those other whites, the bad ones, the ones who didn’t go to Oxford, the ones who probably think genderfluidity is a kind of incontinence and the idea of white privilege is nonsense. They might even have voted for Brexit. PC is increasingly the means through which these people – the decent, hard-working, democratic masses – can be mocked and ridiculed by those who consider themselves better.

Indeed, that two white women can sit around talking about the problem with white women tells us something about what the phrase ‘white people’ means these days. It isn’t just a physical description of those born white. It’s a class indicator. ‘White people’ typically refers to the lower orders, the insufficiently educated, the ‘unaware’.

This is why Jon Snow commented on how many white people he saw at a mass march for Brexit but has never said likewise about the massively white crowds at Glastonbury or the almost exclusively white presence at a recent Black Trans Lives Matter demo in London – because it is only certain white people who are racialised. It tends to be working-class white people and lower-middle-class white people who are reduced to their race, to their whiteness. It’s a way of dehumanising them, in order both to delegitimise their opinions and their values (all of which are said to originate from their whiteness) and to ripen them up for lecturing and social interventions by cleverer, more socially aware white people like Charlotte, Amelia and an army of woke academics and public officials.

And then there’s the question of what the BBC is playing at putting out nonsense like this. This is the public broadcaster, not Buzzfeed, and yet it spews out culture-war rubbish designed to demean ordinary white women as stupid, loud, racist and in need of re-education by posh people. Many people will be asking why on earth they should be forced by law to fund a broadcaster that views them as Karens and gammon who must be saved from themselves by a new, supposedly enlightened elite. The public broadcaster should treat the public with respect, not insult them with classist diatribes disguised as academic analysis. Wokeness is the mask elitism wears, and the BBC needs to recognise that.

Brendan O’Neill is editor of spiked and host of the spiked podcast, The Brendan O’Neill Show. Subscribe to the podcast here. And find Brendan on Instagram: @burntoakboy

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Comments

dom torato

13th July 2020 at 7:00 am

Would you be prepared to kill someone in order to allow these two ladies to give their views HERE► Read More

Peter Hobday

12th July 2020 at 4:32 pm

Would you be prepared to kill someone in order to allow these two ladies to give their views?

dom torato

12th July 2020 at 8:00 am

Leftist whites are engaged in a psychotic project to laugh with glee as the conservative whites are forcibly dispossessed of their nation HERE► Read More

Barry O’Barmy

11th July 2020 at 12:21 pm

The “woke” are the riff-raff.

Ken Morgan

11th July 2020 at 5:11 am

Leftist whites are engaged in a psychotic project to laugh with glee as the conservative whites are forcibly dispossessed of their nations and lands in some kind of sick morality play about “payback” for their ancestors daring to invent the modern world and attempting to spread civilization to the third world. Leftist whites get a sadistic rough sex orgasm when they see non-leftist whites become despondent, dispossessed drug addicts and demoralized husks. They would genocide non-leftist whites if they could, but they’ll settle for slowly choking them out and slowly ethnic cleansing them with imported third world diversity and ramping up the family destroying sexual revolution. It is akin to the antisemitism conspiracy theory. Leftist whites have convinced themselves that non-leftist whites are responsible for everything that leftist whites think is bad. Non-leftist whites are late modernity’s scapegoat, and they will be destroyed. A situation has been engineered where they can’t even speak up publicly about what is being done to them or they get de-banked, de-platformed, fired, canceled, destroyed. But the leftist whites are too dumb to see that kneecapping the foundations of western civilization will backfire on them in a big way, they’ll become South Africa, and the new rulers of the world, the Chinese, will crush the white leftist project, the chaotic, low-trust society, majority-minority woke regimes dreamed up by white leftists and instituted by white leftists, the replacement for the former western world, will just be crushed by China and Russia. And I’ll be (from my grave, it’ll take a century or so), be sheering China and Russia on. The woke white leftists slaughtered my nation, they want me and my people and my values dead, and I feel exactly the same way about them to be honest.

Matthew hughes

10th July 2020 at 7:23 pm

I think the irony of all of this is most working class people aren’t aware of this podcast and even if they were could not give the slightest shit about it

Tony Benn

14th July 2020 at 6:44 am

True, but if someone found a post of theirs on social media that the likes of “Sleeping Giants” decided was offensive and mass pile-on with their employers until they were sacked, then they would give plenty.

You cannot “ignore” this sort of behaviour, it’s in operation and is resulting in people losing careers. Just last week I heard of an actor who was told by their agent that tweeting support for #BLM was “compulsory” with the clear threat that if they did not do so the agent would drop them.

Daniel Goldstein

10th July 2020 at 12:19 am

The success of Amelia Dimondenberg is profoundly depressing. White middle class girl “loves grime music”, meets such artists in a fried chicken takeaway, hence “Chicken Shop Date” is her claim to fame and she has a comedy agent. She apparently discovered this music from going to a local youth club. I suppose she has decided that if you can’t beat ’em, you might as well join ’em. Her father is a respected Labour councillor who represents a rather squalid part of London, though doesn’t live there now, and there are a multitude of dodgy areas in the borough Amelia could have grown up in where she became an anthropologist studying ‘grime’. I know of her family and they are certainly not upper-middle class, but I suppose middle class northerners. I fear that raising their children in an area where they are a white minority has indoctrinated them, Amelia anyway. As for Charlotte, she seems to make a mockery of the word ‘academic’, and revels in bitterness against her perceived enemies who are guilty of wrongthink.

Tony Benn

14th July 2020 at 6:53 am

If you do know the family I’m surprised you didn’t mention something else about them, that they are stinking rich.

Daniel Goldstein

14th July 2020 at 1:42 pm

Evidence? I don’t “know” them but don’t think they are super-rich.

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 10:59 pm

Nice spam

Ven Oods

9th July 2020 at 6:38 pm

I suppose objectors to this sort of BBC behaviour might object less if it ever carried anything based on the opposite view.
From memory, I can think of two comedians who get any air time on the BBC who aren’t fully-paid-up, woke lefties. And even those two don’t get much of a shout.
There’s only one thing for it: DEFUND THE BBC.
If there’s a huge audience and viewership for what they wish to air, then they’ll prosper. If not, good riddance.

Bridget Jones

8th July 2020 at 8:37 pm

Ah that whiteness issue. Only the uniquely privileged have time to dwell on this garbage. The ‘white privilege’ label masks real bourgeois privilege and places those who have had every advantage in life bestowed upon them on a privilege par with the homeless and the unemployed. Plus as an immutable privilege the individual simply can’t do anything to redress the balance save to read a few books, apply the topical hashtag and put the word institutional in front of every ist and ism of course

John Reic

8th July 2020 at 6:35 pm

Reni eddo lodge new book
Why I’ve given up talking to the Labour Party about the working class

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 11:18 pm

Good one!

Iwan Hughes

8th July 2020 at 11:28 am

Is it possible we’re all suffering from a bit of irony blindness here?

Jill W

8th July 2020 at 12:44 pm

Not sure irony blindness quite works on this one Iwan
Try calling out any other group. Should they display similar entitled behaviour or sleights, the reaction to pointing it out by unkind name calling might not be a wry smile.

Stewart Ware

8th July 2020 at 10:33 am

What a dreadful BBC podcast. A load of giggling girls talking nonsense.

Well, y’know, like, when I was at uni, y’know, I found out about white privilege, and like, I was really, like, kind of y’know, black and Asian people were, like, written out of history, and y’know, it was, like, they didn’t understand, like, what it meant was, like, blah, blah, blah, whatevaah, like…

Jill W

8th July 2020 at 8:34 am

Depending on your identity, allocated by those who require division, one person ranting a complaint has always been another person expressing a valid point of view. Yes, ‘Karen’ insult has morphed, now a different target. Other origins of words, e.g. ‘hysteric’, suggests language often reflects power or is useful to those hankering for it.

Ellen Whitaker

8th July 2020 at 2:03 am

Amelia Dimoldenberg is a comedian specializing in cringe humor, so it’s hard to know how to take her comments.

Jeremiah Johndon

8th July 2020 at 1:57 am

The Beeb of course has no comment section

Ness Immersion

7th July 2020 at 11:27 pm

Brenda,
The Karen thing has morphed into much more than you originally assign.
It also includes the virtue signalling maskerbator who wants everyone to wear muzzles so they feel safe.
The equivalent now of OK Boomer is
OK Karen
That particular one is occurring all over as a reaction to the easily led safety at all costs if it saves one life et etc type.that infests the streets and forums.

Ad Dam

8th July 2020 at 11:25 am

Why is it so impossible for you people – the anti-mask brigade – to FINALLY UNDERSTAND that surgical masks are to protect OTHER PEOPLE from your spittle?

Jonathan Marshall

8th July 2020 at 12:23 pm

But you’re the one shouting…

John Pretty

11th July 2020 at 1:38 pm

Well they’re not protecting me from your spittle and your drivel.

And I don’t spit in public.

Brandy Cluster

7th July 2020 at 11:17 pm

The sad reality is that “Karens” are tragic snowflakes with entitlement on steroids. The kinds of people you’d go out in the snow to avoid if they were in your vicinity. Hideous, shallow, unworldly, hectoring and sententious. Shudder.

Jeremiah Johndon

8th July 2020 at 1:58 am

I feel that way about those podcast women.

Brandy Cluster

9th July 2020 at 4:48 am

Yes, it’s so very easy to do!!!

Highland Fleet Lute

7th July 2020 at 11:14 pm

BLM Toronto leader believes white people are sub-human, calls them ‘genetic defects’ – begs ‘Allah’ to help her ‘not kill white folks’
https://www.sott.net/article/437681-BLM-Toronto-leader-believes-white-people-are-sub-human-calls-them-genetic-defects-begs-Allah-to-help-her-not-kill-white-folks

Nice Chappie

10th July 2020 at 9:39 am

Stange how such overtly racist comments from the BLM are ignored by the mainstream press.

John Pretty

11th July 2020 at 1:44 pm

It’s not strange at all.

Marvin Jones

16th July 2020 at 2:28 pm

The BLM, BAME, all ethnics and the LGBT mob’s new Magna Carta for the new Britain.

Ellen Whitaker

7th July 2020 at 10:13 pm

The “Karen” stereotype seems to be to be more middle-class than working-class. These “Karens”, after all, feel entitled to complain about poor service, or call the police when they feel under threat. (There are middle-class ultra-woke communities in the US who have vowed not to call the police when they are victims of crime. Not sure how that’s working out.) The sin of the Karens is that they are not woke. This campaign seems to me designed to shame and demoralize middle-class white women who aren’t woke, and make them afraid to speak up. If they just got woke, they could start throwing their weight around, and complaining as much as they like. Of course, then, they would be complaining about the right things.

Brandy Cluster

7th July 2020 at 11:14 pm

Well, that’s “Out of Africa” comprehensively trashed!! Karen Blixen. Well I never!!!

Jonathan Marshall

8th July 2020 at 12:26 pm

“There are middle-class ultra-woke communities in the US who have vowed not to call the police when they are victims of crime. Not sure how that’s working out.”
Not well, Ellen, not well.

Gareth Roberts

7th July 2020 at 9:49 pm

Darren Grimes is now having to take legal action against the BBC after it blatantly lied about him.
#DefundtheBBC

John D Henry

7th July 2020 at 5:37 pm

If the elite truly believe that what they’re saying is correct, then there wouldn’t need to be so much censorship on social and main stream media. I rather think that the so called ‘Karens’ are actually the ones who are in the right, which says a lot about the education system nowadays (lacking in intellect, but over ‘educated’). As for the terms ‘Karen’ and ‘Gammon’, unlike many of the PC terms that many couldn’t say in any context (some can be endearing depending on context) through fear of losing their jobs; these terms are invariably designed to be a degenerating insult.

Ben Gardener

7th July 2020 at 5:36 pm

The term ‘Karen’ is relating to the woman in America who hysterically called the cops after being scared of a black man (who did nothing wrong). Mentioning it as being the female ‘gammon’ is wrong and is trying to create this anti-middle class feeling.

The Youtube girl is famous for chicken-shop dates and I’ve never heard of the other two. Why is O’Neil wetting his pants over an obscure podcast that few listen to? They were exaggerating things for comic effect (e.g. ‘get out of the way). It’s free speech right? There’s a clear agenda. I don’t hear any mention of his mate Darren Grime’s recent podcast with David Starkey. He seems to have this weird hatred for the middle classes despite being clearly middle class himself.

Danny Rees

7th July 2020 at 5:54 pm

Spot on.

And notice he mocks those who call out bigotry (towards non whites) as being a censorious mob but he rages about bigotry towards white people.

James Knight

7th July 2020 at 6:45 pm

Well in point of fact they often are a “censorious mob”.

At the risk of bursting your bubble, there was a time when being anti-racist meant fighting racism not clamouring for censorship. Also something more than taking the picture of a black dude off Uncle Ben’s rice.

Richard GIBBONS

7th July 2020 at 6:16 pm

Originally it was for demanding middle aged women who are loud and unreasonable. Karens took a major step forward when the term was used against the woman walking her dog off the lead who phoned the police to report the black bird watcher.

NEIL DATSON

7th July 2020 at 6:30 pm

Ben, I haven’t listened to this podcast and have no intention of doing so, and am in no position to question your knowledge and judgement. For instance, that the ‘Youtube girl is famous for chicken-shop dates’ is meaningless to me. Don’t know what a ‘chicken-shop date’ is and don’t care. But I rather think that ‘O’Neil [is] wetting his pants over an obscure podcast that few listen to’ because the BBC is funded by a regressive tax that is enforced through the criminal law. If Darren Grimes’s podcast with David Starkey were funded that way you might have a point. As it is you don’t.

Dominic Straiton

7th July 2020 at 7:07 pm

Starkey was simply telling facts that you dont like. Africa and the Middle east has a far more shameful , ancient and modern relationship with slavery than any Western European nation. There is a huge African diaspora in the Americas. Not so much out of the 40 million shipped north to the middle east.

Michel Houllebeq

7th July 2020 at 5:24 pm

This is while Whites are currently being murdered on mass by Blacks in South Africa every single day – silence in the media at the sick and horrific situation.
#whitelivesmatter

Brandy Cluster

7th July 2020 at 11:18 pm

That would be called “collateral damage”.

Kevin Turner

7th July 2020 at 5:07 pm

The title of Dr Lotte’s PhD thesis was “Monstrous Predatory Vampires and Beneficent Fairy-Godmothers: British Post-War Colonial Development in Africa”. Make of that what you will.

Paul Donaldson

7th July 2020 at 5:04 pm

What I find sad is that these women believe they are well educated and self aware, whereas they come across as possessing little or no self awareness and very poorly educated in critical thinking. The Universities do have a lot to answer for in this regard. As for the BBC, they are beyond the pale now following a Lord Haw Haw agenda and should be abolished.

a watson

7th July 2020 at 4:59 pm

Well said Mr O’Neill. Besides the BBC, the Labour Party and Academia are full of such destructive, middle class feminist fools and snobs. They remind me of many Labour MPs and Councillors. How they despise the white working class male.

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 11:11 pm

Ironically, Amelia is the daughter of a Labour councillor.

John Pretty

11th July 2020 at 1:40 pm

What has the Labour Party got to do with the working classes?

Jack Sprat

7th July 2020 at 4:58 pm

I’m fed up with people moaning about BBC instead of using its complaint system to challenge it on technical breach of stated editorial standards , truth standards and its stated content diversity policy. It needs to be taken for granted BBC is a woke racist organization with a policy of defining society in terms of white ethnic groups versus non white and content and staffing policy of “ anyone not white” with active racial discrimination against under represented non indigenous white ethnic minorities one of the most disadvantaged groups . Black ethnic megagroup is 3.3% with non Indigenous whites 4.4% . look at BBC content …zero coverage of 4.4% , massive coverage of 3.3% almost all of which is focused on “white racism” ….nothing even on African history eg its great slave trading empires. Only 1/3 of the 3.3% come from us transatlantic slave origin of over 200 years …the rest are from African former slave trading tribes or beneficiaries of UK stopping the Arab/African slave trade when it colonized E Africa. You wouldn’t know that from BBC.

Tony Benn

14th July 2020 at 6:50 am

Complaining to the BBC is like complaining to the press ombudsman, an utter waste of time.

Cancel your tv licence, that they WILL pay attention to.

John Reic

7th July 2020 at 4:51 pm

Dominic Cummings is rubbing his hands this Novara media lot handing the Tories the next election

Stef Steer

7th July 2020 at 4:46 pm

I think the best thing the BBC can do is educate itself, actually scratch that…leave #DefundTheBBC

Robert Flack

7th July 2020 at 4:32 pm

Defund the BBC. It should be prosecuted for hate speech. Fat chance!

Gordon Te Gopher

7th July 2020 at 4:29 pm

“The first is that these are two white women telling other white women how to behave. This is a brilliant insight into what wokeness has become. It is essentially high-achieving, self-regarding whites issuing moral condemnations of those other whites, the bad ones”

Nothing new in any of that. Sounds like what feminists have been doing for decades.

KATHLEEN CARR

7th July 2020 at 4:13 pm

Amelia and Charlotte belong to a class that feels threatened as their natural homeland , London and the Home Counties is sold from underneath them. To cover this panic they resort to ‘comedy’ which is just insults of a class and people they don’t know. They and their small group of fans can’t complain that the actual Karens are likely to be BAME people who boss them around ( as this wouldn’t be woke) so resort to tired cliches-rather like the comedy maid in post WW1 dramas who didn’t exist in real life as servants were actually hard to find.

jmNZ

7th July 2020 at 3:52 pm

These “Karens” are like brainwashed zombies from a sci-fi B-movie.
If they had any knowledge of the world at all, they’d be protesting about West Papua and the CURRENT enslavement of the black population there.
But maybe Papuans are the ‘wrong’ kind of black . . .

RICHARD JARMAN

7th July 2020 at 3:47 pm

Brain aching 6th form student politicians drivel

Jonathan Marshall

7th July 2020 at 4:56 pm

6th Form? As mature as that?

fret slider

7th July 2020 at 3:33 pm

The self-loathing just brims with leukophobia.

I bet they still read The Guardian and let us not forget that august publication was founded by John Edward Taylor with money from the cotton plantations – worked by, er, slaves.

Slaves are on sale today in Libya.

Slavery is on display in Leicester.

How can we make vanilla ice-cream more inclusive?

Bill Cecil

12th July 2020 at 3:16 pm

‘How can we make vanilla ice-cream more inclusive?’
Simple: use a vanilla pod then it is speckled with black bits.
Of course how does one make chocolate ice-cream more inclusive ?
Suppose one can use bits of white chocolate in it.

C C

7th July 2020 at 3:31 pm

Good article but incorrect in one major regard. These two girls are not upper-middle class. They are most likely part of the intelligentsia class that has nothing to do with being upper middle. The upper middle is not buying into this woke rubbish and, in the main, made common cause with the working class over Brexit. These girls are most likely the same North London media and academia mob that Viz took the mickey out of in Modern Parents. No one in the proper upper middle would call their children Lydia even as a middle name..

Jo Shaw

7th July 2020 at 3:45 pm

Glad you said that, I completely agree. We need to be careful not to replace one form of simplistic prejudice with another.

Good article, but I’d say that the snobbery he refers to is more of a state-of-mind that people of any background can buy into, although inevitably certain classes are better represented than others.

You can find this mindset on any university campus in the country, not just Oxbridge, and in people who regard themselves as well educated but aren’t – the entertainment industry being a good example.

George Whale

7th July 2020 at 4:08 pm

I agree, this attitude is a mainly a product of Western university education, which insulates students from wider society and from common sense. However, as with religious cults, the (upper) middle classes appear most susceptible.

PAUL ROGERS

7th July 2020 at 4:12 pm

Absolutely.
There is an unemployable educated but deeply ignorant class created by the silly Great University Ponzi Scheme, which should now be allowed to fall.
They are not affluent by their own wealth creation and do non-jobs. They have little in common with the silent majority upper middle class. I, for one, loath these presumptuous people and yet by all metrics fall into this mooted ‘class’. These women are simply pampered, useless, mouths to feed. When we stop funding the BBC and allow their arts polytechnics to fail the cold hard reality of life will hit them.

Brandy Cluster

7th July 2020 at 11:21 pm

Actually, these women remind us that when you educate the deprived working classes – sending them through university – they come out with a heightened sense of grievance and moral superiority. All those formative years sitting around the laminex kitchen table hearing about how dreadful the world is and then shunted off to university with “you tell them they can’t do that to us”!! Britain has a long and, er, proud history of such grievance junkies.

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 11:13 pm

Yes – I am acquainted with Amelia’s family and they aren’t upper middle class. Her parents don’t speak like that. Middle class is what they are.

David J

7th July 2020 at 3:24 pm

You have hit the nail on the head, and sadly, the BBC continues to nail its its own coffin shut.

Who’s responsible for the mess? I point at Lord Hall of Birkenhead, who has quietly steered our public broadcaster away from a proud heritage, into a quietly swirling cesspit.

He now leaves the BBC behind, while washing his hands of any sense of responsibility.

Jo Shaw

7th July 2020 at 3:53 pm

Been going downhill longer than that, surely?

nick hunt

7th July 2020 at 4:01 pm

Hall is just another puppet of wannabe wokism, the latest incarnation of cultural Marxism. We should attack the ideas, not their victims.

Mark Lambert

7th July 2020 at 3:13 pm

I listened to the whole podcast for research purposes only of course.

The amateur presentation stood out. It was mainly drivel.

At one point, the historian talked of things regarding “Empire” and said that the British
had dumped a load of documents in Tanzania at the bottom of Lake Victoria. At this point, the presenter kicked in with:

“Put them at the bottom of the sea? That’s what they did with Osama bin Laden, put him at the bottom of the sea, man”.

At this point, I was stumped and frankly, I’m not sure if the other two guests were also.
It made no sense. How was the presenter’s mind working on *that* one?

I had to pinch myself that this was the BBC. The podcast is still available.

Jo Shaw

7th July 2020 at 3:54 pm

As Mark Twain said: “Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

Andrew Levens

7th July 2020 at 5:21 pm

how incredibly wise! never heard that one before

Mark Bretherton

7th July 2020 at 3:01 pm

The stupidist thing is that anyone who has any clue about internet culture (or works in retail or the restraunt trade) knows that Karens weren’t generally working/lower middle class. They were almost uniformly those from the ‘ladies-who-lunch’ set – those that dropped their little darlings off at day care and filled their days with coffees and lunch dates with their girlfriends, in between hair/beauty appointments and terrorising shop/coffee shop employees.

Matt Ryan

7th July 2020 at 4:15 pm

I don’t think it really matters where it came from and what it meant. What is more important now is that it can be weaponised against the Left in the same way as they are doing to the Right (pick you our terms for L & R here).

Jim Lawrie

7th July 2020 at 2:54 pm

Softening up the indigenous working class to lose the jobs acquired through their white privilege. To be replaced by immigrants who deserve the jobs because they are not white.

Divisions magnified by COVID-19 are about to be played out in the economic sphere. Everyone is clamouring for handouts. But the ability of The UK to sustain this rapidly increasing level of borrowing is nearing its limit as debt soars, income falls and interest rates demanded by the market edge ever upward, and likely to be 3.5% by the end of the year.
Remain see this catastrophe for the indigenous working class as an opportunity to invite the EU in to silence once and for all this talk of independence. That is why their confidence is high enough to be openly contemptuous. They care not a jot for this country or its people.

nick hunt

7th July 2020 at 4:06 pm

That confidence reflects their elitist arrogance much more than any ability to predict future success for remain or anything else. Their judgement is as twisted as their minds.

K Tojo

7th July 2020 at 2:54 pm

Our English upper middle class (those who get their degrees from the traditional universities and go on to work in the professions) enjoy jeering at those lower down the social scale and telling them to educate themselves. In fact, that professional elite utterly despise the aspirational lower middle class when they do actually try to educate themselves (as opposed to imbibing woke propaganda).

Sneering contempt for so-called Middlebrow culture is a common trait among the elite and can be traced back at least to that pathological snob Virginia Woolfe. In Woolfe’s time the “salt-of-the-earth” peasant/lower classes were seen as natural, vigorous and unpretentious. They lived honest wholesome lives. Unlike the despised lower middle class they didn’t entertain silly ideas of “self-improvement” or foolishly aspire to a culture which nature simply had not equipped them for.

I wonder if in the Black gangsta, present day ladies of the white elite have found themselves a new lower class culture whose raw vitality they can enjoy while simultaneously displaying their woke credentials.

Jim Lawrie

8th July 2020 at 11:52 am

“that professional elite utterly despise the aspirational lower middle class when they do actually try to educate themselves (as opposed to imbibing woke propaganda).” That is true of the entire British left. Working class people who gain entry to their club do so on condition that they despise and mock their own. Youngsters are flattered into that by the appeal of having risen above their background, and so their own superiority is confirmed.
I remember years ago one senior “politburo” member of an organisation I was around introduced herself to me with the line “so you’re the working class boy made good.”. She then gave me a 10 minute spiel on her greatness, and her magnanimity in having decided to fight for the working class. I was insufficiently grateful. What I soon learned was that many of these people were privately educated and reeked of it, plus the reassurance that comes from being able to fall back on family money.
Another one asked a guy I was with in a pub what he did for a living. “I’m an asphalter” was the reply. “Oh, that’s very interesting ” said she and then launched into her well rehearsed lecture …. He halted her, pointed out that she had subjected him to exactly the same Q&A about his job on half a dozen occasions, and that it was not interesting enough to stick in her memory. He offered to tell her exactly what she was going to say to him. Flustered, she puffed herself up, glared at him indignantly and defended herself with the “I don’t remember ever having met you.” She then tried to co-opt me with “How do you know this person?” “He’s my brother ” I told her. For at least the tenth time.

etidretni noinipo

7th July 2020 at 2:47 pm

Although I normally strive to avoid being ad hominem, I can’t help thinking by the look of that sorry trio that the title should have been “No Podcast for Young Women” (or maybe “No Podcast for Women with a Modicum of Sartorial Elegance”). In a free market they’d be jobless, and their podcast wouldn’t see the light of day. Yet they spit their venom at the very public who are fleeced in order to keep their rotten ship afloat. How glad I am to be an ex-pat who doesn’t have to fund this shower any more.

Michel Houllebeq

7th July 2020 at 2:39 pm

How does clear anti-white racism become class-based bigotry?
Anyway, this is a clear hate crime – they need to be prosecuted and if not the only conclusion is the UK is systematically anti-white which appears to be the case.
Second class citizens in the country they built.

George Whale

7th July 2020 at 4:21 pm

I understand the sentiment, but I believe it’s a mistake to call for even more ‘hate crime’ prosecutions, as it only encourages the bastards who are taking our freedom away. Let these idiots, along with every kind of extremist, speak freely (bar libel, incitement to violence) so that we the public can make up our own minds. I mean, these dopey, self-regarding young women condemn themselves every time they open their mouths, don’t they?

Danny Rees

7th July 2020 at 2:23 pm

The man who thinks it’s ok for the Prime Minister to call Muslim women “looking like letterboxes” gets salty over white women being called “Karen” by woke leftists.

Ha ha ha comical

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/06/14/boris-was-right-about-the-niqab-its-oppressive-and-ridiculous/

Jonathan Marshall

8th July 2020 at 12:34 pm

You choose to forget that in that Telegraph article Boris was actually defending the right of Muslim women to dress that way. He just said he personally thought it looked ridiculous or sinister – a fair point, surely?

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 11:03 pm

Not in Dannyland.

Danny Rees

7th July 2020 at 2:21 pm

Brendan thinks it’s alright for Boris Johnson to call Muslim women who wear the burka “letterboxes” but he gets salty over “woke” leftists calling white women “Karen”.

HA HA HA

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/07/what-they-mean-when-they-talk-about-white-people/

Linda Payne

7th July 2020 at 2:15 pm

I would guess I’ve read more books than the average Amelia; all I can say is get out of public sector management and get back to being ‘Ladies who lunch’

Barbara Baker

7th July 2020 at 1:44 pm

This sickened me – it is good old-fashioned class based bigotry . Race has little to do with it – these women are hugely threatened by the now untouchable status of BAME people and they feel their very real white privilege is being eroded. What a shame. I have joined the complaints queue at the BBC but it will make no difference. Time to CHOP it – let them stew in their own autonomous zone with no central funding. See how long it is before they start shooting each other

Dean 61

7th July 2020 at 2:10 pm

A good friend of mine used to be a serial complainer to the BBC until I revealed to him that, instead of being read by a senior BBC staffer, his beautiful pieces of cogently-argued prose get directed to some dark corner in Capita where some individual/algorithm spews out standard replies by the thousand. He’s never been the same since!

Jim Lawrie

7th July 2020 at 4:35 pm

I agree with what you say but the BBC are funded by the licence fee. Central funding is what they want to replace it with.

Dominic Straiton

7th July 2020 at 1:35 pm

What books do we read and which books do we burn? The answer is obvious when listening to these three women. All the books will have exactly the same carefully crafted opinion written in the new constructed language of the intolerant. Then if we diverge we can be sent on “implicit bias” training course otherwise known as re education camps with a threat not of prison but loss of your job. The answer of coarse is to tell them to go fc themselves. We still just about live in s a free society rather than a Maoist hell hole. There is no reason this will not change.

Dominic Straiton

7th July 2020 at 1:45 pm

The answer is also to fly a heretical banner over a woke temple.

Dave Tate

7th July 2020 at 1:31 pm

Comments like the ones made by Lotte and Amelia just show how insular the chattering classes have become and how insulting. To talk about reading the correct books shows also how philistine they are in arguing that if white women are not like them then something is wrong. Thank god most white women don’t hold the same views as L and A.

Jonathan Palmer

7th July 2020 at 1:30 pm

Blimey i didn’t realise what a snob I was. Amelia in the picture is my idea of a porky chav Karen

Gareth Edward KING

7th July 2020 at 1:57 pm

Yes, she needs to learn how to dress, for starters, that black-and-white acrylic number along with her being blonde, she needs to learn how to wear ‘white’ and my dear she has a long way to go…White IS after all rather a difficult colour to wear, but she would know that of course.

Jerry Owen

7th July 2020 at 1:27 pm

We can’t blame the BBC for pushing it’s racist woke agenda because they are simply allowed to behave in such a derogatory way with no punishment whatsoever, and believe they believe they are simply right.
Boris with his 80 seat majority really should be pushing back, if he doesn’t quite get why he was voted in by the once impenetrable ‘red wall’ voter then he simply isn’t fit to be PM. He has a golden opportunity to something about the woke culture, in fact there are very few people that are in a position to turn the tide, yet he seems he’s happy to be known for getting Brexit done.. and we know that may well not be the case.
The vast majority of the public are sick and tired of woke middle class white students and the woke white upper echelons of society they champion.
I’m afraid that when the BBC suggests the countryside is racist, all really is lost with our once favourite Auntie, she is riddled with dementia and she needs to be put down. There is no point in the public to continue funding her health, it’s in irreversible decline.
RIP the BBC

nick hunt

7th July 2020 at 4:13 pm

Boris thinks you have to be woke to be loved. Ask Carrie and their dinner circle friends. Things will have to get much worse before he or just about any major figure will join Farage to defend Britain and indigenous Brits in public.

Jerry Owen

7th July 2020 at 10:12 pm

We only have Farage and Cummings that seem to be on the ball.

Ad Dam

8th July 2020 at 11:28 am

The British BS Corp has always been the enemy of the Great Unwashed.

Tony Benn

14th July 2020 at 6:49 am

Never mind Boris or any other politician, they won’t help you.

Take direct action and cancel your tv licence. You don’t need one for streaming and you can get plenty of good series, documentaries and films there, if you want news use the internet where everything is available for free, or the radio.

Tracy Jones

7th July 2020 at 1:23 pm

“Racism is when someone is discriminated against (singled out) because of their race, the colour of their skin, their nationality, their accent or first language, or their ethnic or national origin. Racism is a hate crime, and is illegal”

If the two women in the programme singled out white women as a specific form of attack which it would appear to be the case here then these two women have commited a hate crime and by default so has the BBC for endorsing and promoting such a programme. What action is being taken?

Dave Tate

7th July 2020 at 1:32 pm

Well said Tracy.

Alexander Kinnaird

7th July 2020 at 3:28 pm

Well said my friend, I’m going to use the first part in my complaint to the BBC, I don’t think they are bothered really though, that’s the sad thing in all of this, they think that they are untouchable.

John Pretty

11th July 2020 at 1:46 pm

In my experience complaining to the BBC is a futile exercise. If you persist and jump through their hoops, eventually – after several weeks or months – you might reach someone in authority. Who will still ignore your complaint.

Ad Dam

8th July 2020 at 11:27 am

You could ask their manager?

I keeed! 🙂

Daniel Goldstein

9th July 2020 at 11:00 pm

Not holding my breath there.

Tony Benn

14th July 2020 at 6:46 am

True, complain to the police who “have” to look into the complaint and take it forward.

Peter White

7th July 2020 at 1:18 pm

I’m really beginning to despair of the BBC. Their entire output seems to have gone beyond mere political correctness, but they seem instead to have adopted an agenda that is designed to appeal to 3% of the country (though I accept that the Black British percentage in BBC-land London is considerably higher). The late evening news has now begun to ‘educate’ us with a series of special reports about colonialism – who knew? Last night’s news also had a lengthy segment about a previously-unknown (to me anyway) athlete and her grievance about the police, but no mention of the two paramedics stabbed that day in Wolverhampton – it didn’t fit the day’s agenda I guess. Every day the BBC’s online news page is littered with more attention-seekers who felt they were looked at wrongly 30 years ago. Oh dear, I’m ranting now! In short, what I’m saying is that if an organisation actually wanted to increase racial tension and suspicion, it would behave in just the way that the BBC is doing now.

Neil John

7th July 2020 at 4:59 pm

Overall it’s unsurprising from the BBC, indeed one Lotte’s Pro-Chancellor’s is none other than Jon Sopel, his inaugural lecture is quite interesting: https://youtu.be/CXtL1upGBVo

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Deplorables — a spiked film