‘This is international hysteria’

Lionel Shriver and Brendan O’Neill discuss the irrational response to Covid-19 and the cruel regime of social distancing.

Novelist Lionel Shriver joins spiked’s editor for the latest episode of The Brendan O’Neill Show. They discuss the catastrophe of lockdown, the horrors of the ‘new normal’, and our society’s immature response to death.

To enquire about republishing spiked’s content, a right to reply or to request a correction, please contact the managing editor, Viv Regan.


John Pretty

14th May 2020 at 10:35 pm

A very interesting discussion. I agreed with just about everything that was said.

sara starkey

11th May 2020 at 9:31 pm

This bloody government and their chosen ‘experts’ deciding on our imprisonment and how long it will last. They have NO MORE IDEA than the rest of us what will work. All I DO KNOW is Spain went into a very very severe ‘Lock-Down’ and people were still dying in droves all the time that Draconian ‘Lock-Down’ existed. After SEVEN WEEKS of imprisonment they are only allowed an hour out. What the hell is this all about? What would two or wow! three hours out in fresh air actually do, other than build up your immune system, build up your vit D and perhaps lose some of that fat you’ll have gained by being locked in a flat for SEVEN WEEKS. Being FAT causing you a great deal of problems should you be unlucky enough to get a bad bout of Covid-19.

In the UK people snitching on their neighbours and friends over daring to go jogging TWICE a day….for fucks sake how does that make you either more susceptible to passing on Covid-19 or more likely to catch this disease? As for every carpark in a wood closed……Jesus. All that happens is we park on the tiny lanes. And if walking in a wood and actually parking in what was the designated carpark is sooooo terrible why are carparks open at the supermarket?

How does NOT allowing you to walk your dog on a deserted beach or go for a picnic or SIT on an effing local park or municipal bench cause the Covid-19 virus to rage through the population. There really is nothing quite so controlling and unnerving as seeing all the TAPED municipal benches. Can you sit on a wall? Or will the police move you on doing that too? IF sitting on a bench is THAT dangerous why is it okay for people to sit and check you out of a grocery store?

YET you can fly into the UK – 15,000 a day – and not be tested nor go into ‘isolation’. Working in a slaughterhouse is a designated ‘key’ job or driving LIVE animals abroad is a ‘key’ job – you won’t be made to go into ‘isolation’.

You can work in a supermarket, and god help us all if the REAL workers of this country actually said ‘Fuck it mate’ and downed tools. Wonder how long the ‘Lock-Down’ would last if the ‘lower orders’ weren’t out there to make our lives carry on much as before. Let’s see how everyone would cope when the electricity board, the sewage workers, the street cleaners, the garbage men, the water board, the call centres, the road menders, the van drivers, the post people and other truly useful people downed tools.

Let me guess……once your washing machine broke down, the electricity board doesn’t fix a mains fault, the garbagemen don’t fetch your rubbish, the grocery store doesn’t open, that water leak isn’t mended, that Amazon worker doesn’t send you that whatever junk……suddenly ‘Lock-Down’ will be seen for what it is. A sham. Lipservice.

Even the chief architect Neil Ferguson for us plebs being in ‘Lock-Down’ and ‘socially distancing’…..broke his own rule to see his married lover. Mind you can anyone imagine PM Boxpainter-Liar obeying the Government’s own ‘social distancing’ edict if he didn’t have his latest young paramour living with him…..after all he never ‘socially distanced’ when he had a wife, so why change a habit of a life time?

I really don’t know what the hell is going on but there is so much hypocrisy and double standards. I find it very very scary and I wish the media was not in hysteria mode……..that we were allowed to hear opposing positions to what being done now.

What exactly will happen to all the very many kids who DON’T have diligent parents to check all school work is done. Yet before Covid-19 the hysteria over daring to take your kid out of school for a holiday….apparently that was going to completely RUIN your child’s life FOREVER. Now does anyone give a shit over this real problem…of course not. But we do need an underclass, so now we’ll have a ready made one for the next generation of elites. So look on the bright side. We can never have enough underclass to do all those tedious jobs which makes life easier for those of us with money.

I especially fear for all the world’s poor who, due to their governments following the Western panic, who have ‘Locked-Down’ their poor, their destitute, their disenfranchised ….who are, quite LITERALLY, starving to death and having to queue for FOUR KILOMETRES all crowded together to get a free meal. How is this going to save us all from getting Covid-19?

There is something wrong here. But hey ho ‘we are all in this together’……well the Queen bloody wasn’t when she gave her fireside chat to us on VE day. Her hair looked immaculate, manicured to an inch of her life. And she bloody didn’t do it herself.

Lee Barlow

15th May 2020 at 9:36 pm

You can go out for 3 hours a day in Spain…

Pauline Farmer

10th May 2020 at 6:08 pm

I am aged 70 and live alone and am reasonably healthy. Despite being used to occasional loneliness, I am finding this forced isolation increasingly difficult. All the things I used to enjoy are now denied to me. What is the point of mere existence. I want to live! And all this is so unnecessary, being fuelled by media hysteria. When I was 18 (1968) 80,000 people in the UK died from Hong Kong flu. There was none of this panic then. Are we all so risk-averse now? Health and safety obsession has made us all snowflakes.

John Pretty

14th May 2020 at 7:50 pm

I am in my early fifties and also live alone. Now that the government considers it it’s business to interfere in my social life (or lack of it) it looks as though I will be staying that way.

Jerry Owen

10th May 2020 at 12:11 pm

Great podcast!

Jonathan Castro

9th May 2020 at 10:10 pm

Letter to MP:

I am writing to express my opposition to the current lock-down along with my desire that the government comes to its senses and ends it in full within the next week.

Having failed to implement a proper course of action back in January by quarantining ill passengers arriving at our airports (as Taiwan did – they’ve had 6 deaths from Covid-19 and no lock-down), the government should have adopted the approach taken by Sweden.

Instead, a full lock-down was imposed, which in my opinion was a gross overreaction which will have severe repercussions for a long time to come, and which will most likely end the “Conservative” Party’s time in office at the next election.

First Huawei, then the HS2 white elephant, and now the unnecessary lock-down. This will not end well. I am particularly appalled at the behaviour of our “police” force, which having already lost the respect of the public a long time ago has now cemented its reputation as a bunch of bullying twits who prefer to boss people around, spend time on Twitter and go to gay “pride” parades, rather than do what they are paid to do, which is to prevent crime and catch criminals.

The chances of catching the coronavirus are miniscule, especially outside in the open air. The death rate is extremely low, and the number of deaths so far is comparable to the flu spike of 2014/15 and previous pandemics we have weathered as a country (without any lock-downs).

Furthermore, absurd social distancing measures will guarantee the end of restaurants, pubs, concert halls and a whole host of other venues that depend on a good number of people using them to stay in business. Not to mention airlines, railways and other forms of public transport. Education will prove impossible and most company offices will not function.

It is apparent that most politicians have next to no understanding of operating in the real world, and appear to have limited intelligence. They are cocooned in their liberal Westminster bubble, making ridiculous policy decisions that make no sense and which do nothing except invite ridicule from the country at large. The joy of achieving a proper Brexit by 31st December has been replaced by the nightmare of this lock-down fiasco. It is time to end it now.

Thanks for taking the time to read this letter.

Marianne Winfield

9th May 2020 at 5:29 pm

I haven’t watched this yet but have just read her article in The Spectator. She is one of a growing number of people courageous enough to ask questions.. I’m almost 80 and have been privileged to have been born and lived in a country once seen as the ‘cradle of liberty’. Now open discussion is virtually prohibited, alternative viewpoints are censored, free speech has become an ‘endangered species’. I do wonder what all those brave people who fought and died for our freedoms in the last war would think if they could see what has happened to our country now. It is beyond heart-breaking.

Claire D

7th May 2020 at 2:55 pm

“International Hysteria” ? Mmm,
sometimes the majority are right and the minority (in this case a few maverick scientists & irritable intellectuals), are wrong. Like in General Elections and Referendums.

Which bit of 30,000 dead people, in this country alone, in just over a month, with a lockdown in place, is not understood ?
Why the offhand attitude towards the NHS and NHS workers ? Have you all got private health insurance or something ?

I think there’s cognitive dissonance going on; we are so used to politics and being able to blame politicians, or others, for our social problems, we are not used to natural forces threatening us, as this pandemic is, so some commentators belittle it in order to carry on as usual. The danger with that approach is that you are failing to grasp the reality of the situation.

William Hurtley

7th May 2020 at 11:41 pm

I believe your argument is flawed. Read The Invisible Rainbow; Arthur Firtstenberg. I think you’ll come to understand that lockdown is the known future but covid isn’t the reason for it. Current, and no doubt repeated lockdowns, are preparing us for the permanent loss of all freedom. I even hate to suggest it but the evidence for that end is just overwhelming.

Claire D

8th May 2020 at 8:35 am

Thank you William for the book suggestion, I’m always, well, usually, ready to have a look at a book. Arthur Firstenberg has my sympathy, I’m a bit electromagnetic sensitive myself and I agree with him that wireless technology probably has a detrimental effect on our health to some extent. But there’s always been environmental stresses that potentiate disease, eg, dirt, humidity, fluctuations in food availability etc.
It also sounds as if there is a conspiracy theory element to Firstenberg’s The Invisible Rainbow which I am sceptical about. There may be a smidgeon of truth involved, as there is in many conspiracy theories, which is why they catch on, but I have doubts.

Claire D

8th May 2020 at 8:40 am

I prefer decisions based on facts and evidence not theories.

Claire D

8th May 2020 at 10:08 am

Nevertheless I will try and have a quick read through of it online, it’s not fair to judge it otherwise.

John Pretty

14th May 2020 at 7:53 pm

@ claire D, quoting you:

“I prefer decisions based on facts and evidence not theories.”

So do I. End the lockdown NOW.

Ava Tar

7th May 2020 at 1:41 pm

I am disappointed. The quality of Spiked goes down when dealing with scientific matters as opposed to political opinions. It is really much too early to make conclusions about the lockdown strategy effectiveness as the data is not complete. I feel Lionel was too influenced by her objection to being told what to do rather than what is best for the country.
I have read many articles objecting to lockdown but this far only Toby Young has gone as far as suggesting we should just accept the death toll however high it happens to be. It’s annoying that objectors never propose what they think would have been a better strategy; they just criticise. Lionel did not talk about why lockdown helps to stop the virus reproducing in victims and distancing reduces spread. She ignores that it is proving highly contagious. Bewailing the fact of not being able to hug one another does not give a way forward. Surely she would agree that in an Ebola contagion, for instance, people should not be allowed to hug one another!
Events may prove the lockdown was an over-reaction but at the moment we don’t know. Comparisons between countries is difficult to make. Not everyone I have read is hoping Sweden will fail. Sweden is compared with other Nordic countries on the basis that they are mostly similar. London has a population almost as big as the whole of Sweden and the land mass of Sweden is twice as big as the whole UK. At some stage the data will be able to make fair comparisons.
I really appreciate the views which Brendan gets together in his show as they are not aired anywhere else. After this one, I could see a place for him to interview someone who doesn’t share his viewpoint: this subject would be a good place to begin.

Iwan Hughes

7th May 2020 at 10:57 am

Lionel Shriver: “Epidemiologists get really excited about disease, that’s their business.” Brilliant! (Not a hint of sarcasm intended). This is exactly why epidemiologists should be kept away from the controls (thank god we’ve seen the back of Neil Ferguson, at least temporarily). There is more to running the country that enjoying the best damn epidemic in some of these people’s careers.

Charles Letterman

7th May 2020 at 8:03 am

There’s a lot in this podcast I completely agree with, but the image given of furloughed workers – happy people who are enjoying getting paid 80% of their salary for doing nothing in the sun – can only come from someone who has an extremely privileged position. Most furloughed workers are extremely worried about their jobs and future employment prospects.

Brandy Cluster

7th May 2020 at 12:22 am

I disagree strongly with Shriver; if everybody made a personal decision about whether or not they will obey the law then we’d have anarchy. People would die on the roads, and that’s just the start.

I don’t think this is ‘smart’ thinking, to be honest.

Iwan Hughes

7th May 2020 at 10:40 am

Ultimately, our compliance with ‘the law’ is by consent, and assumes that the law is reasonable; we employ the state, like Hobbes’ Leviathan, to protect us from dangers. If, for example, you are a healthy 70 year old person, and a new law is enacted confining people over 70 to their homes, indefinitely, for their own protection, are you going to comply? You may choose to protect yourself, but the law should not compel that confinement. In doing so, the law brings itself into disrepute.

Claire D

7th May 2020 at 2:27 pm

I agree with you Brandy.

David Jory

13th May 2020 at 1:44 pm

There is a very good article published in the Atlantic Magazine almost a century ago by the former Lord Justice of Appeal Lord Moulton about ‘Law and Manners.’ The law should only be used when needed and it is unhealthy for a society to have an ever increasing legal control.Anarchy will not result if a society has a high level of trust and people agree by custom on how it runs. Different legal systems break down this trust.

John Pretty

14th May 2020 at 7:54 pm

Er, Brandy cluster.

People have always died on the roads.

Brandy Cluster

7th May 2020 at 12:19 am

I intend to make a donation to “Spiked” but we’re retirees and our income has dropped hugely because of the sharemarket crash and, in Australia, the withholding of dividends (income stream) from our ‘big 4″ banks. But the minute, the very minute, we get our head above water it’s a donation to “Spiked” as a matter of priority.

Lewis Deane

6th May 2020 at 8:33 pm

I haven’t read anything of the comments – therefore I’m an intruder – sorry. I just wanted to post my little bit of personality as my protest, to. Sorry. When I’m I’m sober I’ll pay attention.

Lewis Deane

6th May 2020 at 8:25 pm

I lived with death all my life – it’s the real ‘new normal’ of being born – so much so that I have thought I was toxic – everyone I got closed to seemed to die on me – but I knew, rationally, that was because everyone I made friends with were much older than me because they were the only people mature enough to understand me, to understand for instance, that death is life and life is death, the manure of being.

Lewis Deane

6th May 2020 at 8:14 pm

Panic, that’s the word, but that’s just a condition – ‘I persisted’ as they said of that idiot in the US, idiotically. What terrifies me is the sheep-like cowardice of people, for me, a new revelation – it feels like a betrayal – I really felt my fellow ‘working class’ had a bit more bumptiousness, a bit more ‘up youres’ – but no, they walk out on the steps and clap there stupid fantasy of the so called ‘NHS’ – my immediate reaction being that institution she should sold and everyone who works there fired! And, now, they’re terrified in there rooms, so easily. Of course, I’m luckier than most – I live in the part of the world the State never comes! Morecambe – I chose right when I chose to punish myself by coming here!

Lewis Deane

6th May 2020 at 8:12 pm

I must turn this shit into some alchemical gold – as Nietzsche once said – we must all! Cynicism is just pointless, the act of a dog. Now dogs are nice and all that and it was only Diogenes pejudice or, rather, those around him, that otherwise. But we are humans, with the ability to remember and promise. Plan. Think. Not despair.

Lewis Deane

6th May 2020 at 7:59 pm

I’ve forgotten what I was going to say after going through all the panic of ‘login in’ and not knowing or being able to – panic, that’s the word, but that’s just a condition – ‘I persisted’ as they said of that idiot in the US, idiotically. What terrifies me is the sheep-like cowardice of people, for me, a new revelation – it feels like a betrayal – I really felt my fellow ‘working class’ had a bit more bumptiousness, a bit more ‘fuck you’ – but no, they walk out on the steps and clap there stupid fantasy of the so called ‘NHS’ – my immediate reaction being that institution she should sold and everyone who works there fired! And, now, they’re terrified in there rooms, so easily. Of course, I’m luckier than most – I live in the part of the world the State never comes! Morecambe – I chose right when I chose to punish myself by coming here!

Thomas C

6th May 2020 at 5:13 pm

Great conversation. Lionel’s comment that she doesn’t possess a particularly strong herd instinct reminds me in this context of that great outsider Harry Haller, from Hermann Hesse’s “Steppenwolf” (1927). Commenting on the reaction in the press to his anti-war views, he despairs: “Two-thirds of my countrymen read this kind of newspaper, read things written in this tone every morning and every night, are everyday worked up and admonished and incited, and robbed of their peace of mind and better feelings by them; and the end and aim of it all is to have the war over again, the next war that draws nearer and nearer, and it will be a good deal more horrible than the last. All that is perfectly clear and simple. Anyone could comprehend it and reach the same conclusion after a moment’s reflection. But nobody wants to. Nobody wants to avoid the next war, nobody wants to spare himself and his children the next mass slaughter of this be the cost.”
It might not be war now, but we’re being “worked up and admonished and incited” for other evils today, not least the apparent end of liberty.

Viv Madsen

6th May 2020 at 5:09 pm

It’s great there are those, like myself, that are questioning this whole “crisis” and it’s far reaching consequences in all areas of how we live our lives, but it seems to me unless there’s a mass realisation of the very real dangers of blindly going down the route we’re now on, a police state is just a matter of course. The only people likely to find other question raisers are those that are already questioning it themselves or those looking to justify their agreement with current measures by vilifying and dismissing opposition through demonisation and immature name calling.

Raising questions through reasonable channels such as writing to MPs will have no affect whatsoever if those MPs are in full support of what is being done. They’ll simply fob you off or ignore you completely.
Short of people on mass hitting the streets in protest I can see no way of stopping the inevitable, I really really wish I could.

When this first began, before it even hit my intellect (such as it is), I felt on an instinctual intuitive level that this was just plain wrong.

Viv Madsen

7th May 2020 at 2:03 am

This is just a P.S. to my comment:
I’m 65 so I’m heading for the tail end of my life and it saddens me immensely that each day that now passes for me is imbued with an ominous shadow. Purely on a selfish level I’m glad I won’t be alive too much longer to live with what I suspect is coming. But my heart truly aches for those that will be subjected to it for much much longer than I. It has practically sucked away all potential enjoyment in anything for me now. I would like to feel optimistic but I simply don’t.

John Pretty

14th May 2020 at 10:34 pm

You might live to be 90. That’s another 25 years.

Anakei Ess

6th May 2020 at 6:17 am

I’m currently in lockdown in NZ. The unthinking acceptance of the lockdown has been frightening. When I point out we are living in a police state I get the “We are saving life” . All the victims in NZ have been very old and very sick.
We have achieved almost eradication but what now? We are going to live in fear where anyone who gets off a plane will potentially start the whole thing off again.

I have found the people who are happiest with the lock down are the ones that are still being paid. The small business people, the self employed, the contractors, are getting desperate but their voice is not being heard because the adoring MSM only focuses on the latest Jacinda Adern utterance. The leader of the opposition who is trying to talk about the economy has been entirely shut out the news except to be told he is uncaring and “chipping away at the sidelines” Its unbelievable that in a democracy we are told to only accept one view.

Vivian Darkbloom

5th May 2020 at 11:04 pm

Neil Ferguson quits. It’s what I say, not what I do. Embarrassing that he has jumped ship for what is essentially social shaming rather than for inflating mortality figures and being wrong about so much in his public pronouncements. And this goes back years, to the Mad Cow panic when he irresponsibly claimed 150,000 would die from CJD and the UK farming industry was brought to its knees as a result.

Nerina Villa

6th May 2020 at 1:09 am

Yes and these are not the only times he’s been wildly wrong, yet I still know bright people quoting his now very discredited model.

Gareth Edward KING

6th May 2020 at 5:36 am

Ferguson has quit yes, but the brassneck of this epidemiologist is just too much. He’ll still get paid (a lot). His ‘expertise’ in an unpublished, unrefereed paper had his quoting 500,000 deaths in the UK! Good for him that he wanted a bit of ‘ow’s your father’ with his ‘bird’, but it’s down to him that we’re in this mess. He’s nothing less than a grotesque hypocrite.

Gareth Edward KING

5th May 2020 at 11:00 pm

Disconcerting interview but that’s what I’d expect from Shriver a novelist who captures the taste of dystopias-to-come. Her description of these ‘new normal’ queues is exactly what is conjured up in my mind this ridiculous, unfounded idea that the person next to you could cause you serious harm. They’ve got us by the ‘shorts-and-curlies’ they really have.


5th May 2020 at 9:51 pm

Let’s stop fighting each other and focus on the real enemy — the CCP Coronavirus-enablers.

Steve Roberts

5th May 2020 at 8:59 pm

So many points to agree with from Shriver, but as a fellow dissenter from the outset i would say that.
I entirely agree with her point about the atmosphere, antagonism and fear we can all witness in other peoples eyes and responses to each other , even at the most basic level of a shopping queue, there is a distinct suspicion and uneasiness around each other, it is indeed really horrible and a breeding ground for misanthropy.
But i think she goes too far in suggesting as social beings there is a preponderance for most towards conformity, to be of the herd or tribe, to not want to rock the boat too much, that suggests instinct takes over rather than rationale.
What she is witnessing is not a herd like response but the absense of a political response to challenge the mainstream, allowing its narratives to dominate.
This is what we have to reckon with now, very seriously, because this created crisis is not just normal politics, where there is at least a facade of contestation over policy decisions, this has been of a completely different magnitude at all levels of society, the worst of which we have yet to see, there will be an unimaginable reordering of society and prices to be paid.
Shriver mentions outliers, dissenters, and more than ever before they have been very thin on the ground, that needs addressing or more precisely those that have not stood up need reckoning with, this is a very serious social situation where people needed to be brave and be counted as Shriver said, to show some sort of leadership, to try to change the direction society has been taken down, this is and was a defining moment, way beyond a relatively small issue like Brexit.
So lets take stock, be realisitic and draw conclusions, almost the entire global elites of all political persuations have stood firm in their pursuit of this madness, they have been infamously assisted by the media class in this hour of need for the established order, most of the intellectual elite have also crumbled , the list goes on. But lets not exclude those that ought to have been the leaders of the dissent, where have these so called opponeents of the established order been, of all political shades, entirely conspicuous by their absense over this crisis or at best equivocators, fence sitters.
So called radicals and critics where have they been, even at the level of social media posts and articles written or tv appearances and the rest of the media circus they usually inhabit, where have they been, in hiding most of them, useless in the face of this serious social crisis.
Conclusions need to be drawn, if the above cannot be seen in a period like this of what use will they be to challenge the “new normal”, we should remember this at all times.
And it needs saying too there have been some brave and honourable outliers, individuals, smaller media outlets, new formations taking place and solidarities been built, that is a reason to be positive and hopeful for the future, but remember those that failed us when they should have stood up.

Brandy Cluster

5th May 2020 at 8:55 pm

Don’t waste your time fretting about a vaccine. Coronavirus belongs to the same species of virus as the common cold and nobody has EVER found a cure for that.

Michael Fereday

5th May 2020 at 7:49 pm

It is time for West to face up to what is really happening here and for the younger generation to decided their fate. Increased longevity of life, combined with advanced medicine, make the population of vulnerable people ever increasing and increasingly vulnerable. If this is to continue indefinate, young people have to agree to lockdown life forever…Or say no now and live your life! We all did.

Jane Drew

5th May 2020 at 8:41 pm

I just thought I’d put up the statistics for pneumonia related deaths here in the UK in 2018

Nerina Villa

6th May 2020 at 1:13 am

I wish every story on Covid 19 brought stats like you shared into the story to put numbers into context. However it’s very easy to find them, why are so few people doing this?

Nerina Villa

6th May 2020 at 1:16 am

Young people are being made to deel guilty for even thinking that. I’ve been shamed for saying I miss my friends and having fun. God forbid I miss clubbing. So many people seem so pleased they’re happy in lockdown. It’s unnatural. All sane people need to stand together. Thank you for being a sane person, they are few of us speaking out.

Highland Fleet Lute

5th May 2020 at 7:23 pm

London NHS Nightingale hospital will shut next week – limited demand, no new Covid-19 cases

While the Manchester hospital has taken some patients, its sister facilities in Birmingham, Bristol and Harrogate have not admitted anyone.


Kathryn Barbara

5th May 2020 at 3:45 pm

So glad to hear the final part of the conversation about death. As a baby boomer I do feel that people have “discovered” death. And my friends and family have surprised me with their views on risk, attitudes to disease, and even more their attitude to their prospective death. Having a nonogenarian parent in a retirement living apartment, it’s commonplace to talk about ageing, disease (who’s got what and if their out of hospital yet) and what was said at the funerals they attend. What do people think happens when we age?

Brandy Cluster

5th May 2020 at 8:53 pm

They don’t think, and that’s the problem. The people have outsourced their ‘thinking’ to the media outlet/s of choice or the government. Schools don’t teach it anymore, that’s for sure.

Melvin Cowznofski

5th May 2020 at 10:06 pm

Me too. Death! Death-toll! People will DIE! Well, that’s a core part of being human.
What an inspiring interviewee. I feel not alone.
Thanks spiked!

Highland Fleet Lute

5th May 2020 at 1:11 pm

“Every part of our lives will be subject to control. This virus is about training us for submission, training us to do what we’re told. To not go to the beach unless we’re told, to not kiss our girlfriend without their permission. They’re turning us into production units and consuming entities. They are going to rob us not only of our democracy and our liberties, but our souls. They are going to inject us with the medicines they want and they’re going to charge us for the diseases they give us. They are going to control every part of our lives. What we are doing at Children’s Health Defense is using the last instruments of democracy we have left – the Courts – to fight them.”

“We are in the last battle. We are in the apocalypse. We are fighting for the salvation of humanity. We all knew this was coming, though I never believed it would come in my lifetime. But here it is.”

Bobby Kennedy Jr.

Mor Vir

5th May 2020 at 1:52 pm

The first part is apposite but it is a shame that like some other Americans he cannot stay sensible in a crisis and he then goes off on some quasi-religious hysteria. Maybe we had better watch out for the angels flying about with their trumpets drawn and for the Great Dragon and his altars. Some American commentators can come out with some important stuff but the occultism and hysteria is unhelpful. Britain did well to let the Puritans sail away.

Mor Vir

5th May 2020 at 6:45 pm

Just heard this on Arrow: “The difference between insanity and belief lies only in the number of believers.” – Baron Reiter

Apocalyptic Reindeer

5th May 2020 at 2:00 pm

Have you got a source or context for that? Genuine question.

Highland Fleet Lute

5th May 2020 at 2:31 pm

Gimme a sec…

Highland Fleet Lute

5th May 2020 at 3:24 pm

APOCALYPTIC REINDEER, I posted the link. It was held “under moderation” for about an hour, and then removed entirely.

Highland Fleet Lute

5th May 2020 at 3:52 pm

Oh, now it’s back.


Brandy Cluster

5th May 2020 at 8:54 pm

Typical of the emotion-driven, hand-wringing Left. At the end of the day that’s all they’ve got!!!

Apocalyptic Reindeer

10th May 2020 at 9:51 am

Thanks Highland, got it now, couldn’t remember which Spiked piece I’d left my comment on!

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