Trump, Davos and Laurence Fox

The spiked team on impeachment, green capitalism and wokism.

Will his impeachment boost Trump’s election chances? Why have capitalists gone green? What have we learned from the Laurence Fox fallout? Brendan O’Neill, Tom Slater, Fraser Myers, and special guest Freddy Gray, discuss on this week’s spiked podcast:

Picture by: Getty.

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Comments

T Maz

31st January 2020 at 7:17 pm

Oddly the podcasters believe that climate change activism is aligned with capitalism rather than aligned with socialism. Capitalists must be sensitive to people’s beliefs, and hence need to virtue signal to keep from being criticized as evil, and thus mouth green platitudes in public while often ignoring them in reality. They compete in a dog eat dog way. But climate change is collectivist, not individualistic; it’s all about ‘educating’ (propagandizing) and controlling the masses, even while the elite leaders ignore their own prescriptions for them. Green politics is definitely left wing and socialist in the sense that they want to collectivize the economy and concentrate power in the government rather than devolve it to the individuals.

Otherwise this group of podcasters is quite well informed.

Jerry Owen

27th January 2020 at 10:53 am

Re Trump impeachment.. I was somewhat surprised that nothing was mentioned about the democrats trying to get Trump’s name taken off the ballot..before he has even been found guilty of anything. This has never been done before in an impeachment trial and is quite extraordinary.
The democrats are making it up as they go along it seems, with no regard for impeachment protocol.
I would also argue there is no such thing as a ‘capitalist class’, Spiked insinuate that they ( capitalists ) are all pulling in the same direction politically, they are not. Just as all other ‘classes’ they may have general tendencies but they are not 100% homogeneous as a group. They are united in one thing, profit.
The bottom line for them is profit no matter where it comes from, if they think ..and we know there is, money is to be made out of the green agenda that is where they will invest. They know that their system is filtering wealth down to the poorest in the world, what a fabulous bonus for their greedy system.
If Branson were worried about AGW he would ground all his aeroplanes tomorrow.
If BP were worried about AGW they would not bring another drop of the black stuff to the surface of the earth.
As for the disinvestment of coal by the movers and shakers, Trump appears to be investing in coal, does that not count?

Marvin Jones

27th January 2020 at 2:49 pm

Your ideology is a perfect antidote to all migration. No planes, trucks, vans, cars, ships and any type of transport that bring these unwanted wretches to this country. SIMPLES!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

25th January 2020 at 3:11 pm

Same old ‘liberals are all thick as f***‘ schtick from O’Neill. Same old ‘liberals are woke bas-tards’ spiel from the commenters below… No new arguments, no engagement with the substantive issues – just pointless invective…

Tom Helme

27th January 2020 at 6:49 am

Not at all. They are making the point that impeachment will boost Trump’s re-election prospects. People want to know why Trump is being impeached by the Democratic-controlled Congress – the reasons behind the nominal reasons. The psychology behind trying to remove a democratically elected president is interesting whether you support Trump or not.

Melissa Jackson

27th January 2020 at 6:51 am

So, you think a podcast about the past weeks news is somewhere you’ll see a road to Damascus conversion for the Spiked writers? That they will look at the Laurence Fox situation and say “Actually, the woke liberals really are great people after all…” ?

As for your characterisation… Do you disagree with Brendan et al? If not, at least have the courage to say what you think, don’t just say that it’s just so boring to hear the same position from someone else. It makes you sound like you can’t actually defend your position and so resort to tone policing.

Personally, I think it’s really uncharitable to say BON’s position is that the woke are idiots – His position is pretty clearly that the woke haven’t thought their own positions though. That’s not the same.

Ven Oods

27th January 2020 at 7:57 am

Given your regular disappointment with this site’s articles and the comment they engender, it seems extremely selfless of you to suffer it so repeatedly. Rather like worrying at a loose tooth.

Marvin Jones

27th January 2020 at 2:54 pm

Like leopards, no change there then! See, it’s the same sentimental crap from the liberals who condone crime and it’s perpetrators, prison doesn’t work, and Britain could easily cope with the population of the likes of China.

Jerry Owen

27th January 2020 at 4:37 pm

ZP
You clearly didn’t listen to the podcast.. You embarrass yourself.

Christopher Tyson

25th January 2020 at 11:26 am

In the 1980s the Conservative government called for a black middle class, in response to the inner city riots in Brixton and other cities. What they meant was a political buffer between the establishment and the rioters. That the buffer was left wing, didn’t matter, it could be managed. Fear dominates all of this, the fear of racial reversal ‘the black man will have the whip hand over the white man’ as Enoch Powell feared. But minority groups were fearful of Powell and the far Right. Today not many claim the Far Right tag, and most are indignant to be called racist. But some argue, supposedly from a neutral position that identity politics is a free standing phenomenon. Identity politics has been fuelled by a fear of the far Right, and those who portray identity politics as a left wing phenomenon should look a little bit closer to home for its causes.

Jim Lawrie

25th January 2020 at 2:08 pm

It’s always someone else’s fault with your lot. A big boy make you riot and then he ran away?

We have the social breakdown the left worked hard for and that blacks have taken to like fish to water. The difference now is left leaning Police Chiefs, serving and retired, whining about how it is society’s and the big bad Toties’ fault for not providing for and integrating the incomers.

Christopher Tyson

25th January 2020 at 3:53 pm

‘Your lot’ you give yourself away.

Christopher Tyson

25th January 2020 at 4:15 pm

Identity politics is pernicious but we are where we are. Those pre-occupied with finding ‘fault’ for it are anti-left conspiracy theorists. They have a simplistic account of where identity came from. I made a brief sketch to expand that discussion, people are free to agree or disagree. In any case t I I have responded to a provocation which then allows people like you to justify your own prejudiced response. That is the point of the anti-left propaganda, to provoke a response to justify a response.

Jim Lawrie

25th January 2020 at 10:17 pm

I have given nothing way. You refer frequently to your race and think it gives you insight and authority that we have accept and bow to. But you don’t like it back at you with the facts about yourselves.

“… we are where we are.” Such depth. Heigel eat your heart out.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 2:31 am

You say that I refer frequently to my race. The two post that you have replied too say nothing personal about me or my race. I don’t claim to belong to a racial category, you have placed me in one and see pre-occupied with it for some reason.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 9:35 am

Below the line comment is what it is, it is not a good place for philosophical treatise. As someone who is always banging on about his Scottish identity, you should be able to see the influence of David Hume in my writing, common sense, unpretentious, ordinary language, sceptical about metaphysics, or maybe you’re just a name dropper, I don’t know.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 9:37 am

Writing on her is clearly beneath you in your opinion, if you want to go and hang out with your Hegelian mates no one is stopping you. Your are a liar, but you do it by presumption and insinuation, I’ve not expressed any wish to be Hegel and I don’t have your intellectual pretentions. Having said that I don’t see any evidence of dialectical reasoning in your writing, and if the racist, anti-racist question is not dialectical I don’t know what is. I know that we can trace dialectics back to the Greeks, but it is very associated with Hegel. I not being paid to give you philosophy lessons, other spiked readers who are interested should take a look at Kierkegaard critique of Hegel, in relation to the assertion of the subject against Hegel’s totalising philosophy.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 9:38 am

I’ve not expressed any wish to be Hegel and I don’t have your intellectual pretentions. Having said that I don’t see any evidence of dialectical reasoning in your writing, and if the racist, anti-racist question is not dialectical I don’t know what is. I know that we can trace dialectics back to the Greeks, but it is very associated with Hegel. I not being paid to give you philosophy lessons, other spiked readers who are interested should take a look at Kierkegaard critique of Hegel, in relation to the assertion of the subject against Hegel’s totalising philosophy.

Jim Lawrie

26th January 2020 at 10:43 am

It ” … is what it is” Are you trying for profundity or bathos?

Ven Oods

27th January 2020 at 7:41 am

“and if the racist, anti-racist question is not dialectical I don’t know what is.”

I’d argue that it’s more one of twisted definition. The generally accepted one is: “a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.”
Which definition would mean that if indeed the West Midlands Fire Service demands a pass mark of 70 for whites and 60 for blacks, then it’s being thoroughly racist.
I can’t see any requirement to get ‘dialectical’ about that, unless dialectics always trumps commonly-accepted reasoning, in which case we’re back with Humpty Dumpty and words meaning whatever the speaker wishes them to mean.

Jim Lawrie

26th January 2020 at 10:39 am

You associate yourself with David Hume and then suggest I am a name dropper. Not the brightest, are you? Then you go on to laud your own writing style. Self praise = no praise. Work on the grammar and punctuation. Avoid using I, me, my, mine, myself.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 12:59 pm

Your psychologising is just tired old schtick. I have to work hard I don’t deny it, you just presume superiority, maybe that’s what you want. you want me to accept your superiority, but it’s not for me to judge. Well done with your grammar and spelling have a gold star.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 1:03 pm

I may not be all that bright but I know rhetoric when I see it, all the time you’re moving further and further from the point, which was that anti-left propagandist use identity politics as a means of undermining the left, while denying their own complicity. Why you’d want to ride to the defence of the far right is your business.

Jim Lawrie

26th January 2020 at 3:06 pm

Aaawww diddums. Feeling sorry for yourself? Looking for the sympathy vote?

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 3:37 pm

Psychologising again and getting it wrong again, but that’s the thing about pseudo science, it is untestable. Incidentally and on a related point just because you believe something, that doesn’t make it true. Either you are a solipsist or pose as one for undisclosed rhetorical reasons, maybe for its own sake, maybe you are just a troll, a very effective, so another gold star for that.

James Knight

26th January 2020 at 2:09 pm

Identity politics IS the “far right”.

Christopher Tyson

26th January 2020 at 3:38 pm

No analysis there Mr Hegel.

Melissa Jackson

27th January 2020 at 9:40 am

I’m sorry, but it’s exactly as wrong to say that identity politics is driven by the far right. All sectarianism creates an equal and opposite sect. This is necessarily true because identity politics is inherently focused on power dynamics and has no notion of individualism.

The original identity politics is from bourgeois Marxism – The kind written about by George Orwell, where the enlightened middle class instruct the lumpen proletariat about who is more equal. The fear of the Russian revolution, led by intellectual Marxists and not workers, was the cause of Fascism in Europe. The fear of it’s all devouring maw spurred the creation of much stronger nationalist identities.

And this has gone back and forth and back and forth. To draw the line and say there would be no identity politics if the nasty right had just accepted the revolution was inevitable is not just dishonest, it’s an absolute lie. Ask the Kulaks and Ukrainians how they feel about left wing identity politics. Oh wait, they all got murdered.

Kurt Faber

25th January 2020 at 5:19 am

” … a recruitment test in which white people have to score 70 and black people have to score 60. That is racist against black people.”

This is simply the modern Left’s repackaged White Man’s Burden. The modern Left are racist to the core.

Chris Thorogood

24th January 2020 at 11:33 pm

Will the British press eventually criticise Archie because he’s black?

Jim Lawrie

24th January 2020 at 9:34 pm

” … a recruitment test in which white people have to score 70 and black people have to score 60. That is racist against black people.” I nominate that sentence for DoubleSpeak of the week.

It is a recognition that blacks are less intelligent and that double standards are needed to have equality of outcome in employment numbers.

Christopher Tyson

24th January 2020 at 9:27 pm

Some people do not understand spiked’s critique of ‘woke’ or maybe they are pretending. Colour blind or sinister. From a critique of promiscuous anti-racism they assume the position that racism itself is a myth. I made the banal point that if you are black it will impact on your life, I did not say how, or whether it would be in a negative or positive way. If you are colour blind you will still encounter people who aren’t, someone has to tell you that you’re black and what it means. Someone under the guise of kind advice and sympathy, yet strangely hostile accused me of perpetuating victim culture and more. So someone who would claim to be colour blind and sympathetic accuses me of holding ideas that I have spoken out against for years (the excess of anti-racism), portrays me as the embodiment of blackness, assumes that as I am black I hold certain ideas, and that I am responsible for the ideas of every black person, everywhere, ever, and that I should follow her advice or I will live a miserable life (and it will be my own fault). With anti-racists like that who needs racists.

Christopher Tyson

24th January 2020 at 9:09 pm

People who are serious about their racism do not fall into the usual traps, people who get called out for racism have usually committed some faux pas or other. Today racists can hang out quite happily with anti-racists. Anti-racism has become increasingly separatist and ethnic categories have become as fixed as the old racial categories, this is now seen as progressive. Having said that the old pseudo scientific racial scientist would also have seen themselves as progressive.

Christopher Tyson

24th January 2020 at 8:27 pm

In terms of dissimulation there’s one persistent offender below the line at present, there are always a few. For example iidentitatians are left wing, spiked are left wing therefore spiked are identitarians. Or environmentalist are left wing, therefore they are identitarians therefore spiked are environmentalists. A couple of years ago there was the familiar trope about Nazis being left wing, therefore left wing people are Nazis, school playground logic but it keeps some people amused. People who are serious about their racism do not fall into the usual traps, people who get called out for racism have usually committed some faux pas or other. Today racist can hang out quite happily with anti-racists. Anti-racism has become increasingly separatist and ethnic categories have become as fixed as the old racial categories, this is now seen as progressive. Having said that the old pseudo scientific racial scientist would also have seen themselves as progressive.

Jim Lawrie

24th January 2020 at 7:54 pm

The impeachment of Donald Trump is in line with The Left’s tendency ad extremis. They think the electorate so gullible that we will take the very fact of impeachment as proof conclusive of grave wrongdoing. Real evidence becomes a tiresome formality. It is a gargantuan exhibition of their reliance on the ad hominem.
Americans must beware of people who want guilty as charged as the default status in criminal proceedings, rather than a possible outcome. If they can do it, starting with the President, then what is the point of electing one?

Melissa Jackson

27th January 2020 at 6:55 am

I think you are correct, and I also think it’s perfect proof how working-class hostile the modern democrats are. As you say, they don’t want an actual justice system, they just want the accusation to be enough to condemn anyone.

Right back to habeas corpus, the common law protections afforded to the (on average, poor and disenfranchised) accused criminal are the benchmark of genuine progress. Stripping that away to any degree, to even say “He’ll always be impeached now…” shows that they want justice to be a political tool, not a genuine attempt to resolve wrongs.

Dominic Straiton

24th January 2020 at 7:04 pm

Im a white male. If you think that makes me evil and you believe the Duchess of Sussex is black then you believe in the Nurenberg race laws. Well done everybody.

Jerry Owen

24th January 2020 at 6:22 pm

I look forward to these podcasts on YT on a Sunday morning whilst I am doing the ironing for my wife ( I am a ‘new’ man of the classic variety) !
It makes the chore seem less of a chore!
I only wish it was video instead of audio but they are enjoyable just the same.
I am down to just four creases in a given jean leg.

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