The barbarism of identity politics

The team discuss El Paso, Scottish independence and the DSA.

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Topics Politics USA

How can we defeat white identity politics? Is a second Scottish independence referendum on the cards? Has wokeness destroyed the US left? Brendan O’Neill, Tom Slater and Fraser Myers discuss on this week’s spiked podcast.

Picture by: Getty.

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Comments

Ronald Garvey

12th August 2019 at 9:46 am

The suggestion here that membership of the EU is incompatible with national independence/sovereignty is simply false. This is more smart-arsery nonsense… The Scots voted in their referendum some time BEFORE it was known that the UK would leave the EU by the way, so the Scottish pro-independence sentiment was not based only on continued EU membership.

brent mckeon

12th August 2019 at 1:11 pm

O please when has Trump been given a free pass. He is the most attacked vilified president the US has ever had. Not commenting if he deserves it or not just that he has never had a freepass.

brent mckeon

12th August 2019 at 1:12 pm

Oops should have been in reply to Thomas Smith

Thomas Smith

11th August 2019 at 9:28 pm

I agree with much of this, especially the part about the DSA. But why the double standard? Why a blank check and a free pass–ALWAYS–for a creep like Donald Trump, who is OBVIOUSLY using his racist attacks to build a fascist movement and is OBVIOUSLY the culprit here–while Ilhan Omar and AOC (whose allegiance to the Democratic Party I DON’T agree with, being a Marxist) are routinely savaged as “idiots.”?!

Hana Jinks

12th August 2019 at 4:07 am

You really deserve your own column as the American correspondent for spiiked.

gershwin gentile

12th August 2019 at 4:01 pm

“while Ilhan Omar and AOC (whose allegiance to the Democratic Party I DON’T agree with, being a Marxist) are routinely savaged as “idiots.”?!”

TBF they are idiots.

Winston Stanley

11th August 2019 at 2:29 pm

> A MAJORITY of people across the UK think Westminster should allow a second independence referendum within five years, according to a new poll.

The Opinium survey for the Observer found 41 per cent of people thought London should grant a request from the Scottish Government, compared to 32% who said refuse.

Another 22% were undecided, and 5% should the UK government should do neither.

After don’t knows are removed, 52% backed allowing Indyref2, with 41% opposed.
The poll of 2,003 adults respondents was conducted last week.

Among the much smaller Scottish sample of 169, around 54% of decided voters thought the UK Government should allow Indyref2, and 40 thought it should refuse.

The poll comes just a week after a poll by the Tory peer Lord Ashcroft found 51% of decided Scots voters wanted Indyref2 within two years, and 52% backed Yes. (Herald, Scotland)

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 4:04 pm

As a Scottish Unionist, I’m getting sick and tired of reading your cycloptic view of the situation here. Are you often in Scotland? Do you speak to many Scots regularly? I do.

Winston Stanley

11th August 2019 at 4:11 pm

No one is forcing you to read anything, just as no one forcing me not to say what I like, including you. Get over it.

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 5:22 pm

Do you often visit Scotland or discuss these matters with Scottish people?

Or are you just one of these nitwits who bases their opinion on selective polls?

Winston Stanley

11th August 2019 at 5:36 pm

This is not a sectarian bully boy British state loyalist website. If that is the only sort of place that you feel at home then maybe you should go somewhere else. Maybe Breitbart? Spiked have always been “Fenian” and they still are. Either cope with it or go somewhere else.

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 8:02 pm

I’m coping fine. Just pointing out your skewed viewpoint.

Neil McCaughan

11th August 2019 at 5:07 pm

By all means have another independence referendum.

Then we will ignore its result, just like the obnoxious little Scottish Nazi party has with the EU referendum.

Kris Blake

11th August 2019 at 1:10 pm

Personally, I think the English have had enough listening to the eternal Scotsman complaining how he’s hard done to because of big bad England.
They’re a net drain on our economy and the sooner we get rid, the better!

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 4:06 pm

That’s the victimhood loving Scots you refer to.

Most of us aren’t like that.

Kris Blake

11th August 2019 at 7:38 pm

You’re right, Gregory. My apologies.
The “IndyRef2” people are the people I’m referring to.

Bear Mac Mathun

10th August 2019 at 9:01 pm

The comments made indicate that it appear “independence” for the UK is a good thing, but independence for Scotland is not. Scotland overwhelmingly voted to remain in the EU, but they are leaving due to the English yoke.

Given that Scotland voted to remain, it is hardly a surprise that their main party would also be pro EU.

I would have thought that applying the arguments for Brexit to Scotland one can only come to supporting Scottish independence, unless one is a Little Englander.

Winston Stanley

10th August 2019 at 11:49 pm

Totally agree.

If spiked value national independence then they should value Scottish independence from the UK. Brexit is of little use to Scotland if they remain under the dominion of the English parliament at Westminster. Scotland does not need, or want, to be a “tail that wags the English dog”, it is its own country and spiked need to deal with that.

If spiked value democracy then they should value democracy in Scotland and the free choice of Scots to leave UK if they want to. Spiked cannot call out SNP over democracy while insisting that Scotland has no democratic right to stay in the EU, as Scots voted for, or to leave the UK as they may well vote for.

The same arguments may be made for English independence, which is facilitated by Scottish and Welsh independence and by Irish unity. Full independence and democracy for England also relies on an end to the UK. Brexit implies the breakup of the UK in theory and in practice and that is to be welcomed.

Hopefully spiked are not motivated by an overriding concern not to step beyond the Tory establishment pale. We may visit here for independent insight but certainly not for state propaganda. We can make independence and democracy work but we need to be consistent about that. That means that we accord the same principles and rights to others as we desire for ourselves.

Hana Jinks

11th August 2019 at 1:20 pm

You’re exalting puked….

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 4:07 pm

Fenian.

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 4:05 pm

Independence would not be possible as a member of the EU. To assume otherwise is naive.

Winston Stanley

11th August 2019 at 4:29 pm

Independence would not be possible as a member of the UK. To assume otherwise is naive.

FTFY

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 5:20 pm

I didn’t vote for independence, Winston.

Neil McCaughan

11th August 2019 at 5:09 pm

Scotland voted to remain in the Union.

In or out of the EU.

Gregory Buswell

11th August 2019 at 5:19 pm

Of course we did. But many twits seem very happy to ignore this democratic fact.

Jerry Owen

12th August 2019 at 1:23 pm

BMM
It was a UK referendum.. get it ?

Alan D. White

10th August 2019 at 3:39 pm

Why is it socialists understand quite well the evils of monopoly capitalism, they seem to have no problem with the monopoly character of socialism (ownership by the state of all productive resources)?

Amelia Cantor

10th August 2019 at 11:56 am

There is no “barbarism” in responding to racism, sexism, Islamophobia and homophobia by uniting under the banner of those identities by which one is targeted for persecution and hate.

In unity and solidarity there is victory.

Hana Jinks

10th August 2019 at 1:24 pm

Define homophobia?

Jim Lawrie

11th August 2019 at 2:32 pm

Now that the white people involved in these attacks are starting to state their reasons, how long before many more see that “”In unity and solidarity there is victory.”

Neil McCaughan

11th August 2019 at 5:10 pm

Have you thought of taking English lessons?

Hana Jinks

12th August 2019 at 9:08 am

Lol…why do you mod that one out? Out of all the things that are said on here, why is this one of particular sensitivity? I’ve already had this comment modded out nearly a dozen times on a supposed free-speech site.

I’m gonna say what I’ve gotta say anyway. And someone from the Fey-Squad should probably give public account occasionally. Isvit that marx is that much of idol to you guys? Somehow ineffable? Yiiikes.

gershwin gentile

12th August 2019 at 4:05 pm

I note you missed out Anti semitism, and Christophobia. And, whose identity will you protect when the largely homophobic Islamic identity wants to wipe out the homosexual identity? What will you do then?

Jim Lawrie

10th August 2019 at 11:08 am

In the Dayton shooting on the same day the perpetrator was ‘a leftist … posted tweets that opposed Donald Trump and supported Elizabeth Warren, socialism, atheism and Satan … retweeted posts that supported the antifa movement and opposed U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents and police officers. … “liked” a post in favor of gun control, and several concerning the 2019 El Paso shooting … “liked” a tweet that called the El Paso shooter a “terrorist” and a “white supremacist” … was registered as a voter in Greene County, Ohio, as a Democrat.’

Jim Lawrie

10th August 2019 at 12:22 am

Scotland. The country that shat itself.

The poll causing all the SNP excitement is only the 2nd poll of 50 since June 2016 that has put “Yes” in front.

The SNP have commissioned or conducted hundreds of polls and published none.

Hana Jinks

9th August 2019 at 11:42 pm

The fey-squad.

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