The witch-hunting of JK Rowling

The persecution of women who question transgenderism has got to stop.

Brendan O'Neill

Brendan O'Neill
Editor

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Standing up for women’s rights is a risky business these days. Just ask JK Rowling. She has had merry hell rained down upon her over the past 24 hours. She has been called a stupid cunt, a bitch, trash, an old woman and so fucking ugly by an army of tweeting sexists. Her crime? She defended the right of a woman to express her opinion about sex and gender without losing her job.

The witch-hunting of JK Rowling, the ceaseless online abuse of her over the past day and night, exposes how unhinged, hateful and outright misogynistic the transgender movement has become. Rowling’s sin was to tweet in defence of Maya Forstater, the charity worker who was sacked for her belief that there are two sexes and that sex is immutable. That is, a man cannot become a woman, and vice versa. This week, an employment tribunal outrageously upheld Ms Forstater’s sacking and in the process it decreed what it is acceptable for people in the workplace to think and say. The judge said the kind of views held by Forstater are ‘not worthy of respect in a democratic society’. This essentially gives a green light to the harassment, isolation and expulsion from the workplace of anyone who questions the transgender ideology.

Not surprisingly, this chilling diktat, this judge-led effort to outline what opinions we are allowed to hold, alarmed people who care about freedom of conscience and freedom of speech and who think that women should not be punished for holding particular opinions. There is a foul, pre-modern vibe to the idea that women should keep their filthy opinions to themselves and if they don’t they should be expelled from polite society. Trans-sceptical feminists in academia and the cultural sphere responded to the censorious persecution of Ms Forstater by tweeting their backing of her – #IStandWithMaya – and calling for freedom of speech for women who think biological sex is an actual thing. Rowling joined in. The bile she has since received perfectly illustrates the problem at hand – that it has become tantamount to a speechcrime to say there are two sexes.

Forstater has been punished for stating a biological truth, for expressing what humans have known forever to be the case: that sex is sex and it cannnot be changed. This is not an illiberal position. As Rowling said in her pro-Forstater tweet, people should be free to live however they please:

Rowling’s position is perfectly reasonable and tolerant. She’s defending the right of individuals to engage in any lifestyle of their choosing. She is simply saying that, at the same time, women should not be harassed and silenced just because they are worried about gender-recognition laws that would allow men to become women (legally speaking) simply by declaring it. Women absolutely must have the right to say that if you have a penis – or if you ever had a penis – then you are a man, not a woman. And they must be free to say that men should not be allowed in women-only spaces. This is a freedom-of-speech issue and a women’s-rights issue. That so many on the woke left, including in the Corbynista wing of the Labour Party, cannot see that, and instead have joined in the misogynistic harassment of Forstater and Rowling, confirms the extent to which they have sacrificed progressive principles at the altar of identitarian correctness.

The response to Rowling is getting madder and madder. Pro-trans Harry Potter fans are weeping online. Some are saying they ‘found safety in Hogwarts’ when they were kids and now they have been made to feel unsafe by Rowling’s ‘transphobia’. Star Wars legend Mark Hamill found himself being harassed too after he committed the click-crime of liking Rowling’s tweet. He has now expressed regret for his sinful, blasphemous pressing of the ‘like’ button. Oh Mark, what a letdown. Don’t let your opinions be dictated by intolerant mobs of censors and misogynists.

There is a powerfully Orwellian streak in the punishment of people for expressing obvious truths. That you can now be sacked and demonised for saying men are men and women are women confirms that the trans tyranny is out of control. This is why Rowling’s intervention was so important. The only way this woke censorship and persecution of disobedient women will be countered is if more individuals and institutions stand up to it. Everyone must now say what has, surreally, become unsayable: that sex is real, that sex is immutable, and that if you are born male, you will die male, regardless of what you do to yourself.

Brendan O’Neill is editor of spiked and host of the spiked podcast, The Brendan O’Neill Show. Subscribe to the podcast here. And find Brendan on Instagram: @burntoakboy

Picture by: Getty.

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Comments

Floriana Sande

2nd May 2020 at 11:51 pm

Spot on, Brendan, and well said, JKR, and I so admire her for not backing down after the predictable torrent of abuse from ‘trans’ thugs. What is ‘not worthy of respect in a democratic society’ is a miniscule, deluded minority dictating, without consulting the majority, that everyday, unambiguous words like ‘woman, man, he, she, his, her, girl, boy, female, male’ etc. be redefined into utter meaninglessness. What is undemocratic is the demand for every sex-based right, service and protection in the land to be swept aside just for the sake of the Special Few who don’t know how many people it takes to make a baby. But then, it probably takes 137 ‘genders’ to change the dud light-bulb in their head.

Neil McCaughan

2nd January 2020 at 2:57 pm

Did any two groups of whining, entitled, irrational solipsists ever deserve each other more than pretend-women and feminists?

Prospero X

26th December 2019 at 4:38 pm

When will Rowling and similar woke celebs realise that virtue signalling is a dangerous game?

Steve Bradbury

23rd December 2019 at 8:30 am

Like the judgement stated, Maya F (who JK Rowling supported) in general day to day life used people’s preferred pronouns; she also maintained that biological sex existed and reserved the right to name the sex of trans ppl where necessary.

This is rarely necessary with trans ppl in real life. However there are a number of situations where trans woman ACTIVISTS highlight their sex THEMSELVES – by demanding the right (overwhelmingly unwanted by trans women) to go into open plan changes with girls and women; by demanding that trans ppl enter sporting events based on their gender identity (which gives trans men athletes virtually no chance in sports, none at all if they are not on T unless they do darts or curling- as well as over time ruining women’s sport with unassailable World records), by harassing lesbians as transphobic unless they specify that yes, trans women would be on their potential sexual partner list.

In these situations it is not only legitimate but necessary to point out the truth that trans women are male as regardless of gender identity one might go by, nobody can actually change their sex.

This judge, catastrophically, disagreed.

Jon Hunt

23rd December 2019 at 12:55 am

The U.K. has gone down the tubes because of the attack on Free Speech. You cannot say anything that offends people. The police, courts and politicians have been infiltrated by left wing idiots. This is history repeating itself. Nazism and totalitarianism was based on this. Stop speech and punish those with different ideas. JK is a billionaire. She can say whatever she wants. The Left is insane and you better start waking up because soon, your ideas will be no longer be acceptable by others. The imprisoned Tommy Robinson because he interviewed rapists and hurt their feelings. That is just pure insanity. Meanwhile you can see that the conservatives are hidgin because of fear. You can get arrested for tweeting or posting of FB something that “hurts” someone’s feelings. Pure insanity. I’m glad you now have a new leader who will support Brexit! Time to clean up the politically correct idiots.

Steve Bradbury

23rd December 2019 at 8:50 am

A couple of points:

1. Trans activism sits in the individualist liberal centre, which is called ‘left’ in US politics where even the Democrats are Conservatives, and it may be to the left of you.

2. Sadly, 20+% of uk women and 5+% men were subjected to child sex abuse as children, so unavoidably millions of men are perpetrators.

‘Tommy Robinson’ showed he cares nothing for children and their terrible experiences by making out that it’s all about a few bastards who happened to be Muslim stealing ‘our’ girls (who actually belong to themselves) & interfered with their trial.

TrappedInTheOffSide .

27th December 2019 at 11:56 pm

Is this post modern ironic?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

22nd December 2019 at 1:05 am

JK Rowling, CEO of Harry Potter Global Industries Inc., should have been sanctioned for her appalling, third-rate, sub-literary children’s (and immature adults’) novels years ago.

Ven Oods

22nd December 2019 at 9:29 am

The Harry Potter books weren’t for me, either, but their success suggests that most kids disagree with you.
I thought her ‘adult’ books were okay. Perhaps you just don’t like her?

Orangeman Verybad

21st December 2019 at 5:45 pm

Pure shadensfreude! She was too arrogant to think for a second beyond her Stage One thinking. Everyone who has been through this warned her that her time would come, and now it has. There is no better case of hoist by her own petard. She is getting exactly what she richly deserves. It’s like watching Robespierre getting dragged to the guillotine; that must have been immensely satisfying. Is she right? Of course, and the women fired is a nation scandal. But that has never mattered to the leftist mob. The crocodile is eating the celebrities, nom, nom, nom. Eat up, buddy.

She’ll learn nothing useful from this, she’ll grovel to the mob, and she’ll pour money into the very institutions that identify and hunt down the next witch.

The Reals

21st December 2019 at 4:57 pm

When the left starts eating itself like this, sanity and reality get a win. It does far more for the cause of sanity for Rowling to make a statement like this, then get eaten by her own, than it does for a million Ben Shapiros to say the same thing.

Please JK Rowling and Mark Hamill, tell us more! Your fellow ‘progressives’ have an insatiable appetite.

James Hamilton

21st December 2019 at 2:08 pm

The most confusing part of this to me is that the trans activists are clearly promoting a false choice. Saying someone shouldn’t be fired for saying that sex is an immutable fact does not entail transphobia in the same way that saying that people should be allowed to read Mein Kampf does not entail Nazi sympathies.

Mark Houghton

21st December 2019 at 9:14 pm

Your expectations that people will act rationally may be incorrect?

Prospero X

26th December 2019 at 4:42 pm

It’s not confusing. In Stalinist Russia, even the faintest hint of guilt by association could send you to the gulag. These people have the same thought processes – identify and destroy anyone not entirely uniform.

richard

21st December 2019 at 1:44 pm

Some people look at the immigration problems across the western world and blame the Moslems etc. they don’t realise that there is an agenda to destroy the nation state. Likewise people see the problems caused by transgenderism and so on and don’t twig that it is organised by design to undermine our culture. I’ll let you guess who is behind it all.

Willie Penwright

22nd December 2019 at 11:38 am

“Likewise people see the problems caused by transgenderism and so on and don’t twig that it is organised by design to undermine our culture. I’ll let you guess who is behind it all.” The Russians? The Chinese? Donald Trump? The Gays? Women? The DUP? I give in. Who?

Kurt Bechle

24th December 2019 at 3:49 am

he people who want to destroy nationalism and install globalism.

Robert Leclaire

21st December 2019 at 12:59 pm

Screw Rowling and screw Mark Hamill as well.
These are both far Leftist virtue signalling SJWs so it is very fitting that they are now being attacked by the very same monster that they helped to create.

You reap what you sow you Marxists fascists.

Ian Davies

21st December 2019 at 1:54 pm

Yes, I also have little time for Rowling. Most her views seem to be drawn from the progressive libtard hat. However kudus when it is due, she is of course correct on this one and will hopefully encourage others who feel the same way to speak up, that being the vast majority.

Matt Ryan

21st December 2019 at 10:05 pm

Stopped watch/clock twice a day etc.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

22nd December 2019 at 1:02 am

God, you’re really obsessed with this thing, aren’t you?

Tranny Tard

22nd December 2019 at 1:24 am

No more than you.

Jane 70

22nd December 2019 at 4:41 am

No

Ven Oods

21st December 2019 at 11:34 am

Anyway – enough about JK Røwling (she’s minted). Why’s nobody sympathising with poor Lily All€n, who’s been driven off Twitter by complete rotters who think she’s a talentless, teary wonk?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

21st December 2019 at 11:30 am

‘What possible good can this do,especially in a young teenager entering puberty’ —

Quite a bit, actually, in the large number of suicides it’s prevented!

Prospero X

26th December 2019 at 4:49 pm

How many has it caused?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

21st December 2019 at 11:29 am

God preserve us from virtue-signalling bigots like Rowling!

brent mckeon

22nd December 2019 at 11:03 am

Dress however you please.
“Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real? ”

What is bigoted or virtue signaling about those few lines or her life? No slick hateful one liners, enlighten us with wisdom and hopefully a bit of wit.

TrappedInTheOffSide .

21st December 2019 at 10:31 am

How the hell have we come to this? Is it giving a platform to anyone to air their biased opinions without any context or consequences. Then gives them no education in the understanding of their social responsibilities.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

21st December 2019 at 11:31 am

‘their biased opinions’ — all opinions are biased, by nature.

TrappedInTheOffSide .

21st December 2019 at 6:10 pm

What about the context or consequences?

Ven Oods

21st December 2019 at 10:17 am

This stuff always reminds me of Galileo vs the RC Church. He was judged to be heretical and told not to write or speak his heresies (heliocentricity). He escaped the worst excesses of the Inquisition, but died after years under house-arrest.
Nowadays, he’s celebrated; that Pope, not so much.

Jane 70

21st December 2019 at 11:55 am

Unlike poor Giordano Bruno ,who was burnt at the stake, after years of incarceration, for daring to write about the possible existence of other worlds.

jan mozelewski

21st December 2019 at 9:49 am

I cannot for the life of me see what is ‘wrong’ with Rowling’s tweet.
I have zero interest and make zero judgement on the choices other’s make regarding their sex/sexual preferences. (Or regarding anything at all in fact) That is up to the point that they negatively impact on me and my personal freedom. That is the line.
It seems ghastly to me that the very people who rely so heavily on the unbounded tolerance of society are so very intolerant themselves.
Twitter is where the bullies are out of control. I simply recognise this and don’t go there anymore. A lot of people have adopted the same policy. But it worries me that so many young people, children many of them, are being coerced through fear , bullied, into subscribing to views they feel must be held. Make no bones about it…the real message of all this is….if we can go after JKRowling, if we can ostracise her for her quite reasonable opinions, then just think how bad it will be for you if you don’t tow the line.
Hamill’s response is typical. I laugh at the celebs and their ‘followers’ because it has certainly turned on it’s head. Many celebs end up doing and saying idiotic things simply to feed the beast. They become hostage to a kind of tyranny- deleting tweets if the followers don’t ‘approve’ and piling on to others to get in favour themselves. It’s like watching an awful feeding frenzy,

Jane 70

21st December 2019 at 5:07 am

https://unherd.com/2019/12/the-nhs-is-failing-trans-kids/

Please read this, anyone who is still following this thread.

Matt Ryan

21st December 2019 at 8:20 am

In part useful but also bollocks. Kids under increasing pressure to conform because of misogyny and societies expectations that you meet some unobtainable ideal of a female body. Usual feminist claptrap.

Jane 70

21st December 2019 at 11:59 am

But to be fair-and I’m no card carrying feminist-it does make the very valid claim that too many youngsters are being offered gender reassignment;both sexes.

Chuckie Cholly

20th December 2019 at 11:15 pm

My word, these trans lobbyists wallow in self pity and terminal narcissism. The only thing worse than being criticized or mocked is to be ignored by heterosexual normatives.

JK is free to offer her opinions and draw attention to biological facts. If trans lobbyists become hysterical and abusive they should expect to be scorned and disputed. Viva Spiked for providing a forum.

Mike McMahon

20th December 2019 at 10:30 pm

I support people who’s brains are not sexed in harmony with their physiological sex. Abundant science to support this reality as consistently occurring throughout human evolution.

But if sex isn’t “real” (ie the basic physiology) then why is the word “trans” involved?

Maya was wrong to declare sex can’t be changed. It implies the sex of your brain is wrong if it does not fit that of your body. It’s ALL our body! But sacking someone for being uninformed or obnoxious at worst?

I’m an adoptee. I know it’s a gross violation of a child’s rights – my rights. It’s also evidence of societal discrimination against women who are mostly poor, unemployed single mothers – and annoyingly in the case of giving birth “sex is sex” (physiologically).
I know most people are dumber than Maya and think adoption is wonderful. So I guess you should all be sacked. That’ll leave plenty of jobs for the Mayas…

Steve Bradbury

23rd December 2019 at 9:04 am

All the scientific evidence confirms that there are not two types of brains; at most in babies there are one or two areas with average differences but massively overlapping a bit like male and female heights – you can’t tell someone’s sex from their height.

We sadly unwittingly subject the next generation with the skewed artificial stereotypes we were indoctrinated with. A bad fit for all, worse for some.

Suggesting to children they might have been born in the wrong body is child abuse.

Jonathan Yonge

20th December 2019 at 9:21 pm

Its far bigger than trans-
It all started with womens’ lib
Then there was gay rights etc.
Now we have trans
There is also ethnic and cultural, climate, veganism ,,,.

Do you see the pattern ?

Its not the issue at hand, its the game of outrage, victimisation, revolt.
People need to struggle and fight
But there are not enough real problems… war famine pestilence – all are in retreat.

We are genetically engineered over millions of years for a world that does not exist any more.
We need a disaster.

John Jones

21st December 2019 at 9:43 am

Yes, how we need to be protected from all those nasty gays, feminists and vegans.

Ven Oods

21st December 2019 at 10:34 am

The vegans especially. Merciless.

Steve Bradbury

23rd December 2019 at 9:18 am

Chilling. Or is it chilled?

Sally Wise

20th December 2019 at 6:36 pm

When one considers that people fight so strongly to fit in to a box it is clear to me that freedom was lost long ago. Ultimate freedom and freedom of speech would include being who you are, being able to say it without having to fight to make it fit a defined category. Biology actually does not have only two genders or sexes. So the whole premise there are only two is wrong to start with. And needing to fit in to a box is so messed up when you consider you a fighting to be discriminated by it. You are saying that you support the inequalities . It is not wrong to have an opinion, but it is wrong to spread your misinformed opinion . Consider if the comments were made about race. It is easy to draw the line there. We would not debate the identity of an entire race, yet people feel they can debate the existence of transgender people who exist. The discussion should be about how to understand gender, not how to enforce it and their sits the problem

Matt Ryan

20th December 2019 at 7:04 pm

Human biology has (barring aberrations) two sexes. So the premise isn’t wrong to start with.

Titus Groan

20th December 2019 at 8:25 pm

Precisely. In the real world though one might suspect a woman may look a bit manly or a man look womanly who on earth our culture, is going to make detailed enquiries in a toilet? It would possibly occur if one was confronted by someone dressed as a “principle boy” or conversely as Christopher biggins in full twankey. Posturing posturing posturing.

Mark Houghton

20th December 2019 at 9:04 pm

“Biology actually does not have only two genders or sexes……… It is not wrong to have an opinion, but it is wrong to spread your misinformed opinion .”
What you mean about there being more than two genders/sexes?

Cedar Grove

20th December 2019 at 10:21 pm

Most people are biologically male or female, but a few of us are born intersex. Doctors decide which sex such a child is based on their X/Y chromosome pattern. In some cases, this can lead to gender dysphoria in puberty.

Nothing prevents such adolescents from identifying as male or female, as they wish. But the condition is a result of hormones contradicting the genetic disposition. It’s not evidence that intersex individuals, or male to female transgendered people, ought to be allowed in female changing rooms and toilets. I really don’t want to be changing a sanitary tampon a thin partition away from someone who’s never menstruated.

Identifying biological sex with constrained gender roles is the problem, not the classification of genitals, whether natural or surgically constructed. The generation now branded TERFs worked very hard to expand expectations in this regard. It became possible for us to have male beauty consultants and female astronauts. Seeing children now sent for surgical mutilation because they think that’s the only way they can express their inner selves seems profoundly regressive to me. It reinforces gender stereotypes, and damages young people.

And before you shriek, Zenobia, to say this is not to argue that trans people should have fewer rights or be excluded from, or discriminated against, within society.

It is to say that sometimes, women want privacy and decorum. If requesting that is now illegal, & expressing a desire for it unacceptable, come and arrest me now.

Tim Hare

20th December 2019 at 9:06 pm

The fact that you have to draw comparisons with race is an indication that you do not have a separate argument that would stand or fall on its own merits. Transgender is not like anything else. Tell us why there are more than two genders and who exactly does not fit into one of those categories?

Claire D

21st December 2019 at 6:33 am

Sex and Gender are not interchangeable.

There are only 2 sexes, male and female. There are certainly a few anomalies per 1000, but even then whenever a Y chromosome is present testicular development of some kind will occur. Whenever a Y chromosome is absent ovarian development of some kind occurs.

Gender Role Theory was only hypothesised by a handful of sociologists and psychologists from the 1940s onwards.

Facts.

Claire D

21st December 2019 at 6:36 am

That is in reply to Sally Wise.

Jason Webb

20th December 2019 at 5:41 pm

As a fully paid up member of the rainbow brigade, This trans, non binary cis yada yada look at me i’m unique nonsense is getting out of control. God its complicated. We have raised a whole generation of entitled narcissists who just spend their days getting offended on behalf of others. Case in point those that slate Boris Johnsons articles without even reading them.. wont someone pleeease think of us “tank-topped bum boys”.. though who wears a tank top now is beyond me.

In my day it was either queer lesbian or wierdo.. much simpler times 😉
Personally i couldn’t give a shit what other people define me as. Goodness me if they think they’ve got it difficult now they should think themselves lucky they didn’t grow up in the 70s/80s on a council estate… Ive been called all sorts of weird and imaginative names. Take it on the chin and turn it around on them.

The next census should have sex male or female and another question regarding sexual identity, that way we will get a true picture of just how many trans etc we have in the uk. Ive a feeling its far far less than we think.

We are gonna run out room for all sparkly letters on the flag soon. PTO 😉

yours

faggoty faggot
(thats what my mates call me.. on a good day)

Claire D

21st December 2019 at 7:00 am

Good for you Jason, and that’s another aspect of all this that crazes me, where has a sense of humour gone ? I think Jonathan Yonge is right above as well, our relative peace and safety has caused many people to make mountains out of molehills.

I think I might have worn a tank top in the 70s, lime green acrylic rib knit – delightful.

Jane 70

21st December 2019 at 11:57 am

I had some ill advised platform boots, which caused me great difficulties!

Claire D

21st December 2019 at 1:41 pm

Just add hotpants and you’ve got the perfect outfit for any occasion !

Gareth Edward KING

21st December 2019 at 9:34 am

Absolutely! I’ve never gone along with this ‘Alphabet’-people lark. Until very recently it was ‘gay’ ‘lesbian’ or ‘straight’ or even ‘bi-sexual’. Why does ‘trans’ come into it? The former are to do with sexual preferences, and the latter with gender which generally is correlated with biological sex, as has been amply discussed on these pages many times over. It’s not all about ‘you’! Women (and men) are entitled to their own ‘spaces’ but at the same time, ‘trans’ people are entitled to be free from harrassment. Some trans, however, have the boot on the other foot and are laying into women! That makes them yobs and it has to stop.

James Knight

20th December 2019 at 5:21 pm

Recall how Swinson was completely flumoxed in the election during a radio phone in when somebody asked her what a woman is. It was hilarious watching her struggle with such a basic question.

Maybe somebody should ask this judge the same question. Unfortunately judges, unlike Swinson, are not subject to democratic accountability and cannot be removed so easily.

Brian Burnell

21st December 2019 at 6:38 pm

Is anyone trying to remove him?
His views are his own, but not when sitting in court as a representive of the state.

Matt Ryan

20th December 2019 at 4:17 pm

Hard to feel sorry for the Leftist JKR in the same way as it is for the feminists who got us to this point with their identity politics.

Titus Groan

20th December 2019 at 8:08 pm

Quite. Reaping what they sow. However I suspect the support for the idea of “gender” will wain as the truth, that 75% of those confused about their sex are girls, breaks through the odd obsession with boys wanting to be girls. Just as, for all the pontification about gender roles, feminists have opposed ant notion that fathers be equal partners in responsibilty and rights in family life. Oh what a web has been woven to decieve. Were it it for the damage wrought on children and the fragile freedoms to speak I’d sit back and enjoy a richly deserved discomfort of those that leap to call those with xy “toxic”.
Perhaps the really important question here is , why does no one give a toss about all the girls who believe they are boys in the wrong body?

Cedar Grove

20th December 2019 at 10:47 pm

Don’t tar all feminists with your broad brush.

There were, and are, feminists of many different persuasions, and in fact, the ones who favour identity politics believe the rest of us – the people who helped create an anti-racism movement, argued that men shouldn’t monopolise social and economic power, and got anti-gay laws repealed through sustained, gender-cooperative grassroots work – are Nazis who wish to deny trans people the right to live. They apparently can only think in cartoon captions, & you’re no better.

Matt Ryan

21st December 2019 at 1:41 pm

At least you didn’t fall for the usual activist thing of starting with one objective, succeeding is achieving it and then deciding you needed to fix all of societies perceived (by you) ills.

Ah no, yes you did. Probably a climate protester now as well are you?

Danny Rees

20th December 2019 at 3:18 pm

Brendan throwing the word “misogynist” at anyone he disagrees with on the trans issue.

The same Brendan who yells that the left throw words like “racist” at anyone they don’t like.

Danny Rees

20th December 2019 at 3:16 pm

Women get to say that men with penises aren’t women and that’s free speech but if anyone disagrees that’s trans misogyny.

Yeah yeah we know Brendan.

Kellie-Jay Keen-minshull

20th December 2019 at 1:00 pm

Twitter is a bit like the old fashioned chain letter, good people know it’s not real and full of nonsense but they fear not listening to it just in case a headless ghost really turns up in the middle of the night and kills their career.

Ellen Whitaker

20th December 2019 at 12:16 pm

Trans-women. Stop bullying women!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 12:13 pm

You are trying to remove the fundamental right to exist from a tiny minority of human beings in this country who pose no threat to this society. The number of tg people in this or any given society is vanishingly small. The vast majority of tg people are law-abiding people who are just trying to get on with their lives in peace like you. This whole ‘female penis’, trans-rapist hysteria is just a front for bigotry and social scapegoating, much like the witchcraft hysteria of the 17th century. There is huge hypocrisy in the lesbian/feminist/lesbian-feminist lobby now trying to deny others the rights that they seek for themselves. I think most of the people post on these Spiked threads have just identified a minority group that they fear and/or don’t understand and are venting all their rage and frustration.

ULTIMI BARBARUM

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 3:15 pm

On the lesbian dating app HER you are not allowed to say in your preferences ‘women’ only, it is considered transphobic, self I’d ‘females sign up to the app and talk of their female penis, so whilst you may like to think this is scapegoating or bigotry it isn’t, because of the ridiculousness of ‘gender self Identifying ‘ every creep and fetishist has latched on this and used trans as protection *that* is exactly why you are seeing such kick back to the gender recognition act, cos we can see where it is going, so instead of seeing us as the enemy why don’t you take a stand against those that are making it worse for trans people?
Incidentally it’s the same on grindr you cannot put ‘men only’ in your preferences, its transphobic you’ll get kicked.
Some of the men on grindr put women only in their preferences though, and that is ok.

Mark Houghton

20th December 2019 at 5:17 pm

“You are trying to remove the fundamental right to exist from a tiny minority of human beings in this country who pose no threat to this society.” – I don’t think making hysterical claims helps your case much. I think trannies are mentally ill I do not want to see them dead or denied the same rights as anyone else in this country.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 10:20 pm

Sorry Mark, you clearly don’t have much experience of mental illness. Most of the tg people I have met are fully integrated into, and contributing fully to, society while the vast majority of the difficulties they face stem from the ignorance, bigotry and primal fear of individuals such as you. And remember, if you seek to take away people’s fundamental liberty, they have the right to neutralise yours.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

Cedar Grove

20th December 2019 at 10:26 pm

If you conflate existing with presence in a lavatory, you have a very odd idea of what it is to be alive.

People with penises pee differently from people who don’t. It doesn’t affect the human rights of either group if they pee separately. It’s a question of good manners. Is that too subtle for you?

Dodgy Geezer

21st December 2019 at 6:03 pm

“….. It’s a question of good manners….”.

Surely ‘good manners are an outmoded relic of a post-colonialist oppressive paternalistic society? Or is that being ageist?

Ian Davies

21st December 2019 at 2:15 pm

No. Nobody really cares what individuals do as long as it does no harm to others. If a man wants to say he is a woman good luck but do not make it illegal to say he is still a male which he is. That is madness. It is also madness when a mediocre male cyclist decides to become a ‘woman’ and is allowed to compete against biological females trouncing them at every turn. This is giving a right to a vanishingly small number while destroying the rights of all biological females to compete on a fair basis. The advantage is far greater than that given by doping which we outlaw due to it destroying the level playing field. In the strive for a so called fair and caring society this is creating a grossly unfair and polarised one.

Marvin Jones

20th December 2019 at 12:07 pm

The average, normal human being with an iota of grey matter and common sense knows that one’s sex or gender is dependent on the genitals that they are born with. SO! why are tolerating the bogus rights of the minority section of beings with no grey matter and common sense, just plain ignorance and asinine abnormal thinking.

Neil McCaughan

20th December 2019 at 11:15 am

“Measured” and “rational” are hardly the responses one expects from the trans lobby.

Jane 70

20th December 2019 at 10:58 am

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/25/in-memory-of-magdalen-berns/

Let’s recall the dreadful experiences of the late, much missed and very brave, Magdalen Burns.

Jane 70

20th December 2019 at 10:45 am

What worries me-and your comments are most apt Female penis-is that this establishment adoption of ‘what I say/claim goes’ could ultimately be extended to encompass a broader swathe of the criteria which hold society together: identity; citizenship; legal status; solvency;criminal record;political and religious-or lack of-beliefs;age; marital status; parenthood-or not.

if this crazy rights-based obsession with fluidity progresses unopposed, it could well lead to a kind of below-the-radar anarchy, where rules, conventions and civil obedience are chucked on the scrap heap, all in the name of openness, tolerance-(dictatorial tolerance in my view)-under the banner of progress.

Do we want this? Do we want to be shouted down and harassed by the self appointed arbiters of who’s in and who’s out? Are common sense , social norms and valuable conventions to be outed as heresies which must be suppressed and driven out?

We cannot be suppressed in this way, nor should we be cowed and intimidated into denying our biological status as men and women, but not both at the same time.

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 12:03 pm

Jane70: I quit Twitter a while back, this JK thing nearly brought me back, I was gonna tweet trans rights are human rights etc then thought better of it, I do post and reply on reddit about this issue but even reddit is bad in terms of censorship, there are subs like LGBdropTheT it isn’t a hate sub, more we can discuss the concerns without getting banned or called terf.
I’ve seen the articles re trans kids and the skyrocketing referrals, it should alarm anyone with a conscience. On a positive note this gender/sex debate is wide open now, also luckily as its conservatives and not labour in office, the gender recognition act will not be passed without thorough consultation, thank god

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 2:06 pm

OK so you’ve established that the only possibilities are male and female. What now? Do you intend to remove fundamental legal protections from people who are, despite your legitimate views, still fully paid-up members of the human race? You do realise that m to f transsexuals also get raped and assaulted?

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 2:37 pm

Zenobia: When has anyone said that trans shouldn’t have rights or that rape doesn’t happen to them? Stop taking one issue and conflating it with another, we are all protected under sex based rights, to add gender Identification to the current law means same sex spaces are no longer protected, as gender recognition requires nothing more than a person to identify as a gender *under law* this brings and end to the right to have same sex spaces if you cannot see why people object to that then I will say you are being deliberately wilful, if you believe this is anti or trans exclusionary then I would say, if you have ‘transistioned’ you have the certificate you are then legally recognised as that gender ergo you are also protected under ‘sex’ so the argument that it is anti trans falls down, gender Identifying is not the same as sex. There are 100 reasons why this would be terrible legislation I could list them but I know you know them all already, that is the frustrating thing, your insistence at manipulating the meaning and the direction of the debate, to give it a sinister tone that simply does not exist to further fuel the need to feel victimized, well you’re not victimized no one is coming after trans people, just stop asking people to lie in order to validate the lifestyle choices of grown adult men *yes, straight men who like to dress in dresses, is a choice, they are not trans*
Stop asking women to be ok with self-ID men coming into same sex spaces and demanding their attention, I cannot think of another scenario where we would think that this behaviour isn’t anything other than weird at best or in a lot of cases predatory.

Dominic Straiton

20th December 2019 at 10:44 am

It is now the time to ignore the mob on twatter. They are as irrelevant as the labour party. Stand firm, and never ever apologise especially if you are self employed.The march through the institutions must be reversed and the whole cultural straight jacket will collapse like a house of cards and disapear like a morning fog.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 2:09 pm

Well done, Dominic. Three metaphors in a single sentence. Worthy of Shakespeare.

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 10:35 am

Trans rights are human rights
But
Women’s rights can wax my….

Ven Oods

21st December 2019 at 10:24 am

Thanks; that cheered up my late breakfast!

George Orwell

20th December 2019 at 10:05 am

This is a confusion of definitions.
There is no doubt that biologically there are only two sexes.
However, society has recently taken to accepting that some people of both biological sexes feel that they ‘should’ be of the other sex.
So, for societal reasons related to human rights it has become ‘appropriate’ to recognise the stated preferences of such people.
There is no reason why both usages should not exist in parallel with sensible precautions taken to prevent abuse of the rights of privacy of those who do accept their biological sex.
Nevertheless, failure to go along with the recent change should be a matter of bad manners rather than criminality and nobody should be punished disproportionately for bad manners otherwise we would all be jobless and/or in prison.
The apparently vicious behaviour of the transgender lobby in seeking such extreme retribution for hurt feelings is far worse than any hurt feelings that they might suffer as a result of bad manners, thoughtlessness or ignorance.
They do need to be reined in.

Marvin Jones

20th December 2019 at 12:13 pm

So, you are willing to capitulate and surrender to the most ignorant and asinine thinking of imbeciles for the sake of their human rights? How stupid does that make these human rights? and the people who worship this garbage.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 2:08 pm

Marvin Jones is very angry about a tiny minority of people with whom he will rarely, if ever, come into contact. What is it precisely about them that you fear?

Titus Groan

20th December 2019 at 8:18 pm

Of course. As Dr. Peterson has repeatedly pointed out he has no objection to acceding to requests that are about manners, his issue is with Law and criminal sanctions. There really is a world of difference between manners and legal sanctions. And which group has campaigned to have the “personal political” and can claim “unwanted compliments” or simply being a boyfriend two years older than his girlfriend is “rape” and needs special courts.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 10:21 pm

When in the history of the world have tg people been shown ‘manners’ by the general public?

Prospero X

26th December 2019 at 4:53 pm

Zenobia. Most of the time, by most people. I can’t think of anyone I know who would be rude or insensitive to a confused, probably desperate person trying to find a role they feel comfortable in.
I’m sure trans people come across mockery and nasty words every now and then. Unfortunately, that’s life.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 10:04 am

Nice bit of virtue signalling from Brendan. He’s getting ‘down with the women’. However, I do agree that aggression or physical violence expressed towards someone is a bad thing. It is really missing the point though to state that one cannot change from one biological sex to another. The issue is how you deal with gender dysphoria pragmatically, practically. For over a century now, feminists have been eroding gender roles that were established on the basis of biological sex for millenia. Who are they now to complain about tg people seeking liberty of action? In Ireland and Denmark, the law was changed to allow tg people to self-identify and an avalanche of assault/rape cases has never materialised. Why this hysteria in England?

Biological sex may be immutable but repeating that as a mantra does nothing to help us deal with the very real consequences of the gender dysphoria that has also been an immutable law of human behaviour since the very beginning. Men and women are, after all, the same species – or does O’Neill deny that?

Jane 70

20th December 2019 at 10:48 am

Of course he doesn’t deny it Zenobia, neither do the rest of us. It’s just that we have blokes who are obviously blokes,complete with male appendages, claiming to be female, because they say so and playing musical chairs with gender pronouns.

This cannot end well.

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 12:07 pm

Appealing to emotions is a form of manipulation, Zenobia knows full well what this debate concerns, I’m done being manipulated, I have no ill will nor do the majority, Zenobia knows this full well too, so how about Zenobia stops engaging in bad faith, that would be a good start at least.

Neil McCaughan

20th December 2019 at 11:13 am

Gender dysphoria is of no great age. In fact its most obvious manifestation, feminism, is a recent phenomenon.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

21st December 2019 at 11:33 am

Then how do you explain the historically attested existence of eunuchs over thousands of years (Ancient Near East, Byzantium, Ottoman Empire, etc.)? How do you explain Roman murals depicting transvestites? Have you studied any history?

Ed Turnbull

20th December 2019 at 2:00 pm

BON’s missing the point? Erm, projection much? The point here is not that gender dysphoria does or does not exist (I’ve replied to you on another thread giving my views on the appropriate to respond to, and treat, that particular mental illness), but that a woman (JKR) was dogpiled for tweeting in support of another woman (Maya Forstater) who’d been punished for stating an incontrovertible fact.

That JKR was dogpiled is indicative of just how many really unthinking – nay, *utterly stupid* – people are ‘out there’. But what’s really terrifying is that Forstater was punished *for speaking the truth*. ‘Orwellian’ is an oft overused adjective, but it’s entirely appropriate here.

I’m convinced that if the tale of the Emperor’s New Clothes were to play out today the little boy yelling out “Hey, the King’s naked!” would not be hailed as the clear-sighted hero. No, he’d been seized by the mob and lynched for wrongthink. That’s how bad it’s become. Or is becoming.

Fortunately Brexit, and the recent GE result, seem to indicate that the ordinary folk of this good land have had more than enough of this progressive horseshit. We will not go quietly into that good night.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 2:03 pm

ED TURNBULL — ‘this progressive horseshit’.

You want to remove the fundamental legal protections accorded to minority groups in the UK so that they are not thrown out of jobs for no reason or physically assaulted with impunity? I suppose you find anti-racism legislation really tedious as well.

Ed Turnbull

20th December 2019 at 2:46 pm

Ok hotshot, show me where in my comment – and I mean the exact words – I called for legal protection to be removed from anyone? Can’t? Quelle surprise. Trying reading what I actually wrote, rather than relying on what your mind imagines I wrote. I know that’ll be a stretch for you, but hey, give it a go. (I don’t know if you’re deliberately trying to mischaracterise my position, or if you really are that poor a thinker. I’ll leave that one to the court of public opinion to determine).

Anyway, for the benefit of those with poor comprehension skills (yes, I mean *you* ZP) the ‘progressive horseshit’ to which I referred is that speaking certain truths – which the progressives find uncomfortable or inconvenient – can land you in court. And, possibly, facing a custodial sentence. Does anyone – other than ZP – think a society where that’s possible is a healthy one?

This very situation was brilliantly satirised in an episode of Babylon 5 (‘The Deconstruction Of Falling Stars’) more than two decades ago. A propagandist in the 27th century draws a clear distinction between Goodfacts (which are acceptable to the ruling elite) and Realfacts (which are verboten). J Michael Straczynski was a prescient writer indeed.

The Reals

21st December 2019 at 5:14 pm

Wrong ZP. A small subset of power hungry women have been making lots of noise about not having the power that men have. That is all feminism is about. After 50 years women still dominate the jobs women always had and men still dominate the jobs that men always had. You’re amplifying the exceptions that always existed and calling them change. They’re not. We will NeVER send an army entirely made up of women to fight an enemy army of men. And not even the most self deluded feminist would argue that we should. We will never send an entire trainload of women 2 miles down into coal mines, or to ddep dive under offshore oil rigs. And conversely, the job of having babies will never be shifted to men. You have conflated the idea of men and women being equally capable of mundane desk jobs in front of a computer, with the idea that we are equally capable of all the same things. This is not ‘eroding gender roles’ in any way (surprise, it’s only creating more taxpayers, exactly what the feminist movement was designed, by MEN, to do). That’s so fantastically ridiculous that I’m surprised people are being nice enough to give your idiot logic fair treatment. All you’ve proven is that women are equally capable of gullibility and self delusion.

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 9:53 am

This had to happen, I feel bad for JK, I’m not a fan, but jfc the abuse!
I’m glad all the hate has finally come out of the woodwork, before this was seen as a fringe issue and not taken with any great seriousness by the wider public, now they will see what some of us have saying for years, that trans-ideology is a cult, sex based rights need protection, not because ‘trans people are bad, but that bad people will exploit those laws ffs, it isn’t that hard to understand. The will fullness of people to deliberately contort the language to make ‘sex is real’ a transphobic slur is disgusting. This is a cult I’m not playing, I don’t care if I get sacked or banned. Time someone high profile mentioned the effect this ideology is having on children and the referral rates and the 13yr olds having double mastectomy let’s get it all out there.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

20th December 2019 at 2:04 pm

‘the effect this ideology is having on children’ — the numbers involved are still tiny. I agree that expressions of gender dysphoria in minors should be treated with great caution.

Female Penis

20th December 2019 at 2:51 pm

Zen: Its the fear that has been instilled that makes it so disturbing, it shouldn’t be the case that teachers or parents dare not question the wisdom of the treatment for fear of reprisals, there should be zero kids on medication to assist reassignment there isn’t one good argument for it. Treat the mental condition or distress sure but with therapy may be even anti depressants but hormone blockers? absolutely no way, I don’t care how few the numbers are, the point is is that the number have increased some 4000% and please do not say it is because more ‘trans kids’ feel more comfortable ‘coming out’ because as we know kids cannot possibly comprehend the complexities involved, it is because of what we teach in schools and because of fear that we are potentially ruining the lives of children.
Trans kids as phenomenon do not exist, they only exist in so much as a trans adult was once a kid, take me for example, I am gay, but I wasnt a ‘gay kid’s because before I hit puberty I was just a bundle of atoms running around, I had no way of expressing my gayness then, so I was only a gay kid In the sense that I’m a gay adult that was once a kid. So we shouldn’t be treating kids with a view to thinking how they ‘might be’ as an adult, because we have no way of knowing. So just leave the kids alone

brent mckeon

22nd December 2019 at 11:26 am

That is the real problem, a tiny minority (your words) section of society is forcing a cultural/structural change in the huge majority. An example using vaccinations. That vaccinations are a real positive factor in the general populations health etc is non negotiable but there is a small minority (tiny) who are dangerously allergic to vaccinations. Thus should all vaccinations be discontinued because of these few? No, is is the job of medicine to identify these few people and make sure they are treated/looked after. Thus as with Trans people, society and the broader culture/norms should not be thrown out of the window for this tiny minority. The medical field, science (yes the same discipline chucked into the global warming debate) and sociology (not politics or Twitter mobs) should be used to scientifically identify the tiny minority that do not fit the male/female sex/gender norms and be treated with respect, compassion and clear science not Lefty politics of the day. This latter we all know changes daily with the numerous careless clicks of social media buttons. Major surgical perations on minors, resulting in changes that are not reversible, is most certainly not science.

Jane 70

20th December 2019 at 4:18 pm

You’re so right; this is a cult,with all the trappings of cultish group think.

On another thread, I mentioned the probable long term consequences arising from forcing the body’s cellular instructions to go against their inherited genotype. So, XY is drugged into expressing XX,or vice versa.

What possible good can this do,especially in a young teenager entering puberty.

There are indeed genuine intersex cases, rare but having drastic consequences for affected individuals, but moving towards the present free for all, where blokes in drag demand the right to be female,in spite of their physical attributes is crazy and dangerous.

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Deplorables — a spiked film