The unfinished business of St Peter’s Field

Read Brendan O’Neill’s speech from yesterday’s pro-Brexit rally in Manchester.

Brendan O'Neill

Brendan O'Neill
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Yesterday, Brendan O’Neill spoke at a pro-Brexit rally organised by Leavers of Manchester close to the spot of the Peterloo Massacre of 1819. His speech is published below.

All my life, I’ve been labouring under an illusion: I believed I lived in a democratic country.

I believed that as a result of the sacrifices made by the people who marched here 200 years ago, Britain was now a democratic nation.

I believed that thanks to the tireless campaigning of the Chartists in the 1840s, British people had the right to vote.

I believed that thanks to the Suffragettes, every adult in this country, regardless of their sex or their station in life, had an equal say in how the country should be governed.

But now, I’m not so sure.

Because now I am told that the vote I cast in 2016 – the most important vote I have ever cast – can be overturned.

I am told that the votes of my friends and family can be overturned.

I am told that the votes of millions of my fellow citizens can be declared null and void. They can be destroyed; erased from history.

And if that can happen, if that does happen, then this is not a democratic country. And the suffering of the people who rallied in St Peter’s Field, on this spot, 200 years ago will have been in vain.

We cannot let that happen under any circumstances.

Let’s get real about Brexit. This is no longer a fight to take Britain out of the EU, although that absolutely must happen. This is a fight for democracy itself. This is a fight to preserve the vote.

This is a fight to ensure that ordinary people have as much say in the governance of this country as rich people, posh people, and those bloody people marching in London today to overturn the result of the 2016 referendum.

This is a fight to say that the people who marched here 200 years ago were right. They were right that even people who live in the most difficult of circumstances deserve equal democratic rights.

That’s why we are here today – to make sure the democratic progress those brave marchers fought for is not snuffed out by the new elites; by our political class and the ‘People’s Vote’ mob who trust the snobs and technocrats of Brussels more than they trust us, the British people.

We should never underestimate the seriousness of the political moment we are living through. We are living through a huge battle over democracy.

If our votes from 2016 can be trashed, then the right to vote itself becomes meaningless. If the largest democratic vote in the history of this nation is blocked or thwarted or diluted beyond recognition, then voting itself will be emptied of meaning.

The vote will become a hollow thing. It will be robbed of its power. If our votes are enacted only if the political class and chattering classes agree with what we say, that isn’t the right to vote at all. That is the right to vote so long as the establishment thinks you made the right decision.

That would kill the right to vote stone cold dead. It would disenfranchise us. These are the stakes.

The political and media elites who are lined up against Brexit and against us – what they really fear and loathe is democracy itself. It isn’t really the wisdom of leaving the EU that they are calling into question – it is the wisdom of the people.

What Gina Miller really detests is the idea that her cleaner should have the same political power as she does.

What those Remain snobs at the Guardian really hate is the idea that people who read the Sun should have the same voting power as they do.

What the leaders of the ‘People’s Vote’ movement really cannot stand is the idea that the people who live on the council estate at the end of their street should have the same say as them as to whether Britain stays in the EU.

Those people, with their St George’s flags hanging off their balconies, and their tabloid newspapers under their arms, and their white vans in their driveways – how is it possible that those people had the same right as nice middle-class people who went to Oxford to decide whether Britain should stay in the EU?

That is the question that keeps these people awake at night. Let us never underestimate the role that class hatred plays in the ultra-Remainer camp and in the broader war on Brexit. Make no mistake – these people would have been with the magistrates who sent out the yeomanry to cut down democratic protesters on this spot 200 years ago.

Democracy was a searingly radical idea 200 years ago when the good people of Manchester gathered here to demand their democratic rights. And it remains a searingly radical idea today. That is why this idea is causing the elites to go into such meltdown right now. They can’t believe people actually took this idea seriously; they can’t believe we really thought that working people should have the same voting power as wealthy people.

Well, we do! We take this idea very seriously indeed. Some of us think it is the most important idea in the entire history of politics. And that’s why we are here today to defend it.

We owe so much to the people who marched here 200 years ago. We owe so much to the 60,000 men, women and children who gathered here and said: ‘Give us a voice.’

Their bravery ignited the spirit of democracy; it gave rise to movements which won us the rights and comforts we enjoy today.

We cannot let those people down. Two hundred years ago, people’s democratic rights were cut down by swords and sabres – today our democratic rights are cut down by technocratic deal-making, middle-class arrogance, and parliamentary betrayal.

No more. Brexit is the people’s cry for greater democratic power. If democracy in this country is to survive, then Brexit must happen. And mark our words – it will.

Brendan O’Neill is editor of spiked and host of the spiked podcast, The Brendan O’Neill Show. Subscribe to the podcast here. And find Brendan on Instagram: @burntoakboy

To enquire about republishing spiked’s content, a right to reply or to request a correction, please contact the managing editor, Viv Regan.

Comments

Christopher Evans

23rd October 2019 at 3:28 am

An excellent, inspiring and well-written piece Brendan !!

Justin Flanagan

21st October 2019 at 10:25 pm

I find it very frightening that so many people are campaigning to nullify the referendum result as if it never happened and by doing so kill democracy for future generations. They seem to have no grasp of the precedent that will be set for the future.

I firmly believe that anyone who wants to cancel brexit should lose their democratic right to vote, There is no such thing as believing in democracy if it only applies when your vote is one of the winning majority.

Kill democracy at your peril.

Carlo Guli

21st October 2019 at 8:18 pm

hear hear

Dave Spart

21st October 2019 at 3:42 pm

Well put, Brendan.

Amelia Cantor

21st October 2019 at 10:37 am

All my life, I’ve been labouring under an illusion: I believed I lived in a democratic country.

This is a v. strange confession. If Britain were a democratic country, BAME communities would not be so large and flourishing here, because the white racist majority would have voted to keep them out. The despicable Enoch Powell had most whites with him after his hate-mongering “rivers of blood” speech.

Fortunately, Britain’s more enlightened, intelligent and educated elite did not allow the majority to have its way in the 1960s. We see the same thing happening with Br*x*t. White racists voted for it, the progressive alliance of BAME communities, lawyers, sociology lecturers, John Bercow, Oliver Letwin, et al are stopping it.

So, no, Britain is not a “democratic” country and should not be allowed to become one until there is a permanent progressive majority here.

Btw, if Comrade-Commentator Brendan values democracy, why is he a Trotskyist and admirer of Lenin and Leon? Trotskyists believe in an elite vanguard of tough-minded intellectuals who are prepared to kill as many people as it takes to smash the old system and inaugurate a new age of human progress and technological advance. Trotskyists certainly do not believe in “democracy”.

But they will pretend to do so in pursuit of their real aims.

Puddy Cat

21st October 2019 at 10:06 am

In his Diary, Pepys writes about the many occasions when the guard were called out to stop the repetitious apprentice riots, during which many lost their lives. It was in the national interest that riot was quelled. Peterloo was not singular but may have coincided with a time when it was easier to disseminate stories of such happenings and the emergence of the politically committed interlocutor. I sincerely hope that in the same way that Britain avoided the 1848 risings that we will come to our senses before there is a general stirring, when even those who are bench workers, artisans, will be forced to leave their toils to counter the well funded and seemingly idle middle classes. I was heartened to see that at College Green was sporting some flags in competition with those of the EU. It seems like a small itch but those sorts of things often turn into cancers. As a mature state we have reached a time when there is a coming together brought about by the split that has formed between democracy and nationalism. The latter has always been used to signify the past and imposition whereas democracy has come to represent the present and imposition. We might respect, grudgingly, the actions of the state but we feel a little other when we see red Dante’s professing cod science and nuisance devoid of any consideration or practicality.

John Millson

21st October 2019 at 9:08 am

So, the people are brutally thwarted, the assumption being that EU with their treacherous UK agents, are the direct cause of a material suffering and psychological pain and this needs an urgent solution? To co-opt Peterloo in defence of a so-called ‘clean’, economically ruinous, Brexit is a gross misuse of history. There is no comparison. Those massacred a Peterloo were agitating for representation in conditions of extreme hunger and unemployment.
Get back to the actual issue on the ground – peoples’ material wellbeing. We do not need lectures on ‘Democracy’ from people who probably hardly ever vote in elections anyway – representative democracy being so despicable and ‘middle-class’.
Yes, the majority of the 2016 referendum was for Leave, but how many of us knew fully about the various technical processes etc. of leaving the EU? An obvious truism: the deliberately protracted and complicated process has caused frustration and loss of reason on both sides, making the issue now completely political.
Assuming bully-boy Johnson gets the UK out of the EU soon, Ireland will be traumatised (ultimately might be seen as good for nationalists – re-unification of Ireland); Scotland will declare independence with a view to re-joining the EU. England & Wales will then hopefully regain a sense of reason, with the usual old bulldogs having shuffled off, and then will apply to re-join the EU.
The EU will never leave the UK shores.

”Deine Zauber binden wieder
Was die Mode streng geteilt;
Alle Menschen werden Brüder
Wo dein sanfter Flügel weilt.”

Your magic binds again
What custom strictly divided;
All people become brothers,
Where your gentle wing abides

Jerry Owen

23rd October 2019 at 3:04 pm

John Millson
It appears that you had no idea what Brexit meant reading your tedious whingeing posts some three years on, it was never going to be a breeze most of us knew that but of course the treachery was totally unforseen from parliament and permanent whingers such as yourself that don’t accept you lost .. I note with interest you say that ‘the majority of the 2016 referendum was for leave’ .. most people who accept they lost would say ‘ leave won the 2016 referendum’ ! See what I exposed there about you ?
Anyway as for another post of yours .. you agree with the ‘spirit’ of the EU.
Most of us .. that’ll be the winners of the referendum want rather more practical stuff such as independance from a non democratic empire.
BTW long post from you unfortunately .. fact lite !

John Millson

24th October 2019 at 8:14 am

Jerry Owen,
We all know what Brexit means now, don’t we? TROUBLE. Troubles in Ireland again (there’s no way out of that one, smug Brexiteers). Inflation. Redundancies. Strikes. In other words a return to your beloved 1960s & 1970s when all was right with the world. Your lot are basically ignorant, sentimental fools.
The verdict of the 2016 referendum was: a majority of 3.9%, 1.3 million people, to leave the EU. Yes you ‘won’. Your cockles warmed enough, eh? You won, you won, you won…I respect you, (do I f*ck) you’re so wise…
Idiot.

Jill W

21st October 2019 at 6:12 am

Brendan’s article highlights the ‘spirit of democracy’.
So often I hear that any reaction by Ls to being asked to re-cast their votes before the first result is implemented is fear? Does perceived injustice not figure in this analysis? Is it convenient for so many Rs to perceive Ls as only capable of responding emotionally?
There are those who wish to own the narrative of other people’s decision making. I witness Ls constantly held to higher account, ‘ explain yourself’, ‘go away and think about what you have just done ‘, ‘ one more chance then we’ll say no more about it’.
If, 3 years ago, all voters had been presented with a simple Q & A on the history, institutions, future plans etc. of the EU, my guess is both Rs and Ls would have scored same average. Many voters on both sides researched and drew references from their life lived.
Immediately, from various pop singers in 2016 decrying some implied bad thing which leave voters had done to the youth, the result triggered more than disappointment. For some it quickly evolved into self- righteous indignation eventually translating into disdain.
The old arguments that the vote is wasted on the people are re-emerging. And yes, it is starting to feel like the end of democracy in the U.K.

Cody Bailey

21st October 2019 at 3:06 am

“If voting made a difference, they wouldn’t let us do it.” – Samuel Clemens

In many ways the Brexit vote is a parallel to the 2016 US presidential election. The establishment scum are working tirelessly to overturn that vote (they will fail) and they still cannot understand how they lost. I refuse to explain it to them and encourage them to double down on their current strategy at every opportunity.
Y’all seem to be having a tougher fight, but fight on.

BARRY TREVERS

20th October 2019 at 10:53 pm

I thought Brendan O’ Neil’s speech was on the mark, & highly emotive. I noticed Pedro Dias throwing his lot behind the Liberal Elite that would love to suffocate democracy. We know what their ultimate goal is & can be found under Coudenhove Kalergi, it also reflects their disdain for the Lilliputians that make up most of this country, & are the engine room of its economy. What angers me most of all, is the ‘blood & treasure’ that was laid to create this Sovereign nation. All of this is to be forgotten by the faceless Bilderbergers that have seized a chance to tailor the world in their image. Modern technology has aided their thrust ever more salient.
The bureaucrats of Brussels, do not have a fondness for what the UK, & USA stand for. The cut & thrust of free trade is not the kind of Capitalism they want to embrace. Yet it gave Britain & America huge global clout over the last two centuries. It was a mistake to have ever joined the EEC. In hindsight, now is the time to correct this mistake. I have never seen such mounting corruption of our political will, by so many paid with Judas Euro’s. Quite frankly, I’m appalled. My Grandfathers whom served in both World Wars, would be wondering what was the point, when Parliamentarians have secured what Hitler, & the Kaiser did not. As a further footnote, Germany’s economy will tank, & not recover unless it ditches the single currency, the other EU nations will follow into the abyss. What price for smug Remainers, then?

Modern Money

20th October 2019 at 11:45 pm

Barry,

It is amazing how remainers call the EU the sunny uplands. Then completely ignore

a) France

b) Greece

c) Italy

d) Free trade that we already had with the EU that destroyed large parts of this country.

e) Financial sector capitalism that is no better than Stalin’s socialism.

The liberal metropolitan Guardian class see the yellow jackets as their enemy and cheered when the Greeks got punished. Want jackboots on the throats of the Italians.

They will be destoyed at the next election because they live in their own bubble. I hope it is by the Brexit party and not the CONservative party.

Modern Money

20th October 2019 at 11:48 pm

What is even more delusional is they really do believe they can change the EU from within.

They been trying for nearly 50 years and all they manged was to ban smoking in pubs. They can’t even change the politics in their own country. Never mind all of the countries in the EU.

If they would just step back and listen to themselves. Remainers just might, but probably not realise just how absurd they sound.

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 12:33 am

I also have noticed that you could do a judgement about my ideology without even asking me which side of the barricade I am… But there you go… Who am I to criticise you and your knowledge about my person?

Ven Oods

25th October 2019 at 1:42 pm

“without even asking me which side of the barricade I am…”

It’s just possible that he formed a judgement based on your previous posts?

Modern Money

20th October 2019 at 10:26 pm

Excellent !

There is a historical example of what leave voters need to do.

Labour won Scotland year after year after year. As soon as Labour stopped representing Scottish voters we destroyed them.

Tory voters know deep down what they have to do

a) save the party that no longer represents them.

b) destroy it.

That decision decides if we ever leave the EU or not. I do not think Tory voters have the guts to do what Labour voters did in Scotland.

Labour voters are about to destroy the Labour party in the North.

Yet, all Tory voters seem to worry about is splitting the Tory vote. With the Brexit Party that will actually represent them.

Then Rather stay with a party that does not represent them.

It is madness. A version of Stockholm syndrome.

Michael Lynch

20th October 2019 at 9:49 pm

Great speech, Brendan. Expresses exactly how I feel.
Letwin is toast now, talk about burning your bridges. He most be the most despised ex Tory in the history of the Tory Party. He and Grieve are openly consorting with the opposition benches. The trouble for both of them is that they can hardly cross the floor and become socialists now, can they? They can’t run as Independents either as no one wants a turn coat in a Tory constituency – Soubry take note. Their political careers are over after the next GE. They must be desperately hoping their posh Banker mates will throw them a few favours down the line. That’s if they haven’t become too toxic to friends who will want secure connections of their own with the next Tory Government. Talk about a couple of Billy no mates!

John Millson

21st October 2019 at 11:20 am

Letwin is one of the few parliamentarians acting in the national interest. (He’ll be stepping down at the next election.) And that’s the problem there aren’t enough who are for the nation first. The current govt. are clearly for the anti EU de-regulators, with their assumed ‘mandate’ of the ‘17.4 million’ only. That’s not how mature democracies should operate.
But for the deluded Corbynites pushing for an immediate ‘hegemonic’ shift and not the best interests of constituents, May would have got her agreement through and the UK would be on its way out of the EU now.

Jerry Owen

21st October 2019 at 4:03 pm

John Millson
If you had won the referendum to remain in the EU would you expect the decision to be implemented ?
Yes or no will suffice.

John Millson

22nd October 2019 at 11:45 am

Jerry Owen,
Absolutely ‘Yes’. And that is always the argument I would use against referendum-deniers. But you know it is more complicated than that. There are ways of leaving which are more beneficial than other ways, for everyone concerned – the UK and the EU.

Barney Rubble

20th October 2019 at 9:18 pm

Remainers: united by their desire for another referendum AND by their determination to avoid a general election.

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 9:58 pm

A winner is always a winner. So what are you afraid of fighting for another referendum? Leavers run out of lies, and what is left is a small minority who still want to believe on the cake.

Barney Rubble

20th October 2019 at 10:31 pm

“A winner is always a winner”. Except when we win the referendum, eh. Then it’s not winning.

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 10:48 pm

I’m not denying you won the referendum, but due to the fact the result can’t be delivered on an easy way, you must fight for it again. You have the chance of having a final say, so what’s your fear of having another referendum?

Barney Rubble

20th October 2019 at 11:02 pm

Leaving was very easy or should have been. It has been stymied by remainer sabotage in parliament and the civil service. No second referendum until the result of the first has been fully implemented. And once we have left and honoured the people’s verdict, then we can have a general election. Then you remainers will get a chance to vote for a remainer government. What are you frightened of?

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 11:58 pm

It’s incredible how you’ve been told a lie, and even so you still want to believe on it. Who told you leaving the EU would be quick and easy? Nigel Farage? Boris Johnson? Iain Duncan Smith? They lied you, as they always do, and keep doing it through all their lives. But, again, despite all that you still believe them… I can’t believe you and Leavers thought that leaving the EU would be an easy thing to do… You don’t buy a War without going to the battles, do you?

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 8:33 pm

You can not have fish and chips without knowing what you’re eating is true cod and true potatoes.
It scares me, and it should scare anyone who read this article, the way the word democracy is brought to a subject without the truthful meaning attached to it. Even more when the author brings the suffering of the people who rallied in St. Peter’s Field 200 years ago. Democracy serves the people and needs to be truthful and transparent. I can’t remember the Leave campaigners telling the truth and being transparent on their rallies. It almost all turn out to be lies and impossible goals, in the name of freedom and their short concept of democracy. So, what kind of democratic act was the referendum back in 2016? None, there was no democratic act. There was an intention of shifting the concept of democracy only to serve the Leavers elites and establishment.

Dominic Straiton

20th October 2019 at 9:15 pm

Actually Peterloo was nothing compared to what Napoleon dealt to the citizens of Paris with artillery. Paris was designed with wide streets for the use of grape shot and today rubber bullets. We have nothing to learn from any country in Europe about Freedom. It was born here. We will have it long after the eu is dust.

Michael Lynch

20th October 2019 at 9:33 pm

Facts always trump twaddle speak. Great reply, Dominic. True democracy was indeed born in Britain.

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 10:14 pm

You’re saying freedom gives you the right to lie? Because I don’t understand your point. What does freedom has to do with democracy? You only know what is taught you, and what others want you to know, nothing else. You believe on what others want you to believe, and you are programmed to follow or lead the ones on the same “tune”. But going back the the freedom subject, where is your definition of freedom on Julian Assange’s process then? And others alike? People in China are free too! They walk on the streets, they got mobiles, they chat with each other… What’s the difference? None, except here you have a bit more freedom. That doesn’t mean you have it all, and also doesn’t mean you should use your freedom to justify your lies on the back of a bus.

alan smithee

20th October 2019 at 10:07 pm

Same old crap from the remainers but this time dressed up in a few paragraphs. Why didn’t you write ‘the leavers didn’t know what they were voting for’ and save us the trouble of wading through that bile.

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 11:05 pm

Your concept of democracy is a vote where you, or someone like you, censors what can be said in the campaign. That is why freedom and democracy are inseparable.

Go ahead and post your version of the above article with the bits you disapprove of removed.

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 11:36 pm

No, freedom and democracy are different things. Don’t mix all together making it if one thing doesn’t exist without the other, because that’s a lie. That’s how brains are washed, starting from a simple and truthful concept which all of a sudden is totally distorted by adding to it an external component. It’s the same as telling you that you that fish & chips need to be seen as a whole and not as a portion of cod a portion of fried potatoes in a box, when in fact is a portion of both in a box. It’s because of these kind of misconceptions that kids think potatoes grow on supermarkets and Brexit leavers think they will inflate their egos by being “independent” from the already existing independence. By the way, when did the UK lost the independence? Can’t remember seeing that on the news. Such happening should have been largely covered by the news all over the world, don’t you think so?

Jim Lawrie

22nd October 2019 at 10:23 pm

Pedro Dias argument by analogy is for those who know they cannot argue their case on its own merits.
That is to say, those who have nothing to say.

Modern Money

20th October 2019 at 11:25 pm

” It almost all turn out to be lies and impossible goals ”

Complete and utter nonsense.

Tell me Pedro what is the next stage of the process if we leave this week ?

Then tell me what the next stage of the process would have been if we had left on WTO ?

They would be exactly the same this is the stage were the real deals get done. Only difference is if we had left on WTO we would be working on these deals on a level playing field. Compared to working from a position to cut these deals of being boxed in by May’s nonsense.

Even the side of the red bus was not a lie.

The UK government could spend £600 trillion on the NHS on Monday morning if it wanted to. All it would do is instruct its own bank to credit bank accounts.

Job Done.

Iceland or any small Island that has its own currency and central bank could spend 800 trillion on their health service on Tuesday morning in the exact same way.

The reason they do not do this is because there is not enough

a) Skills

b) Real Resources

To absorb that kind of spending. Which means if they did it would cause inflation.

Not because there is only a limited number of £’s somewhere in a field and when they are gone the UK is bankrupt. There is no HUGE shed on the Isle Of Wight that holds our taxes for future use. If there was it would have been empty 300 years ago.

Doctors and nurses and hospitals do not just appear out of the pavement. They take years to train and years to build and need skills and real resources.

SO lets say the money promised by Boris on the side of the bus was exactly for that ? training doctors and nurses and plumbers and electricians and bricklayers so that there is enough skills and real resources so that we can through money at the NHS.

It always comes down to what skills and real resources a country has. The stuff we can run out of not key strokes on some computer at Threadneedle street.

That’s like saying when you watch a cricket match the scoreboard is going to run out of runs so they will have to stop play.

They give you a ticket to enter Lords that cost you £150 they take it off you then they destroy it. They issue the tickets first and then collect them. The monetary system is the same it does not work the other way around.

A government can always afford high-quality health care provision. ( If there are enough skills and real resources) to absorb the spending.

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=36477

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 12:29 am

Life is easy as well as trade deals. That’s what was sold to you? You think other countries are going to literally scrap decades of trade deals in between them, just because there’s a new player on the market? Let’s assume UK want to sell potatoes to Ukraine, but Ukraine is already buying potatoes to Spain(EU) on a trade deal that includes other things… let’s say wine. Ukraine says to UK “yes, we will buy you the potatoes”. Spain (EU) will tell Ukraine “ok, you decided to buy potatoes to UK, so now you won’t have access to the wine either, or at least at the price agreed”…. There’s a lot more than just trading. There are commitments, price caps, a whole lot of stuff… But there you go… UK is free to walk around the World, like a free bird doing trade deals… one after the other, like water flowing on a river… freely… All roses…

Mike Ellwood

21st October 2019 at 12:18 pm

@Pedro:

“New Player on the market” – You are talking about Britain? The 5th largest economy in the world? We didn’t get to be that by being the new player on the market. And we are one of the oldest democracies in the world, and we were still a democracy when most of Europe was under the Fascist or Nazi jackboot. And then we helped to re-build the Europe of which you are a proud supporter. So please don’t lecture us about being a “new player on the market”.

Modern Money

20th October 2019 at 11:35 pm

When it all boils down to skills and real resources ( stuff we can run out of). Then there is a discussion to be had about private healthcare.

Private Helathcare is stealing skills and real resources from the NHS. Just so rich people can jump the cue. If you tie that in with Brendan’s speech above then that can’t be right either.

The BOE is the score keeper of the £. It neither has £’s or does not have £’s. It has a spreadsheet and keeps score. It is not a Cricket player it is the scoreboard.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/congress-you-are-the-scor_b_914306

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 12:45 am

The deficit of this country is completely over the roof, and promises of spending trillions are nothing but promises. All of a sudden there are billions to spend on public sectors, when that spending could have been done all over the past years. All “bla bla Bla”… On a country where Councils don’t have money to collect the bins on a weekly basis, or do road repairs, it says all.

Modern Money

21st October 2019 at 1:13 pm

Oh dear Pedro you should look at the real data

The government budget deficit of this country is the non government sectors surplus to the penny.

It is called our sectoral balances.

http://d1lak6acrudc02.cloudfront.net/images/2016/05/66737450gov.private.sector.balances.JPG

When the budget deficit gets bigger so does household and business surplus.

If the government put £100 billion into the economy via government spending

Then took £90 billion out of the economy via taxes.

What happens Pedro ?

As the graph above shows the government runs and £10 billion budget deficit and leaves a £10 billion surplus in the economy.

If it only taxed £80 billion out of the economy

It would run a £20 billion deficit and leave a £20 billion surplus in the economy.

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 3:16 pm

Your graph stopped working in 2015, almost 5 years ago. If you can show me how UK is going to pay the billionaire budget this government presented on the Quenn’s Speech, I might give you some reason. I don’t accept assumptions such has “UK will have ££ in revenue in the next x years” simply because that’s not going to happen if this country leaves the EU. Everybody talks about deals, but no one knows what are those deal, with who and how much those “deals” worth.

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 3:06 pm

UK is only the 5th largest economy in the world, with the presence of big corporations such as BMW which owns Rolls Royce, Mini and others, Peugeot which owns Vauxhall, big international banks, etc… If most of them are out of UK within 2 years time, you can come here and tell me in what position is UK…

Modern Money

22nd October 2019 at 12:05 am

It pays for it by spending the money.

End of story.

Please do not tell me you think they have to find computer keystrokes?

Or even worse you think government finances operates like a household budget.

Or worse still you think they need your taxes before they can spend. Tell me Pedro where do you get your money from that allows you to pay your taxes?

Clue – it is written in every note.

No the graph did not finish 5 years ago. It is an accounting fact. The government budget deficit is the non government sectors surplus. That continues forever.

The ONS even produce a report on it. Called the quarterly sector accounts

Or put “Goldman’s top economist Jan Hatzius The most important chart in the world’ into google. Or UK sectoral balances graphs.

Then apologise.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/uksectoraccounts/bulletins/quarterlysectoraccounts/previousReleases

Modern Money

22nd October 2019 at 12:16 am

Here is a how to suck eggs explainer of the UK sectoral balances if you could not be bothered to read Goldman Sachs or the ONS reports.

https://gimms.org.uk/fact-sheets/sectoral-balances/

Jill W

20th October 2019 at 8:12 pm

In my experience those who wish to stop the UK leaving the EU are organised, funded, vocal, energised, networked, often providing coaches to protest sites and frequently visible in town centres arranging petitions and letters to MPs
Until yesterday I held on to the ‘at least I have my vote’ reassurance. How does 1 million (even though not all franchised) filling London’s streets compare to 17.4 million who exercised their precious vote?
But Saturday I accepted, finally, that my vote is of no value.
Because of the groupthink I encounter daily, instinctively I want someone else to take the lead, uniting the many silent leave voters.
Not proud of that. I should do more.

Michael Lynch

20th October 2019 at 9:51 pm

Except is was no were near a million. I watched the live helicopter views during the day.

alan smithee

20th October 2019 at 10:09 pm

It was around 70,000

Pedro Dias

21st October 2019 at 1:03 am

70.000? Nahhh 7.000 or even maybe 700…

Nigel H

20th October 2019 at 6:16 pm

The single most upsetting thing about the whole Brexit situation is how it suddenly seems to be the norm to turn people into ‘enemies’ and ‘traitors’. How is that good for us as a country? I’m actually sickened by the language in this article.
I’m not an elite, either political, media, or otherwise. I voted remain, I work at a company that is dependant on imports from Europe, and already had to make people redundant when the exchange rate crashed and suddenly made everything we do more expensive. Thanks Brexit. Can’t wait until the tariffs kick in!
I don’t buy this people’s vote nonsense, the people already had a vote. Unfortunately so many lies and inaccuracies were thrown about in the first referendum that it should be declared entirely invalid. Let’s have some honest truths this time, and all vote once and for all on that basis. Then whichever way it goes, we can all accept it, and get on with the more important things in life.
There are ‘elites’ on both sides, and in my opinion, if anything Brexit makes it more likely we’ll be ruled by them than the alternative.

Neil McMillan

20th October 2019 at 8:15 pm

The lies and money were ‘thrown about’ by the establishment ahead of the referendum:

i) Each family to lose £4300 p.a.
ii) Recession immediately
iii) FTSE would crash
iv) Consumer confidence/spending would plummet
v) The city and major co’s would move to mainland Europe
vi) Huge rise in unemployment
vii) Investor sentiment would collapse
viii) Manufacturing would collapse
ix) Industry would collapse
x) There was no intention for an EU army
xi) Get to the back of the “Queue” – Obama
xii) Emergency Budget if you dare not to do as you’re told!

And the best of the lot, Cameron’s biggest lie!!

xiii) WW3 would start

It doesn’t matter how often the establishment continues to lie to us, the genie is out of the bottle and it is not going back in

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 9:48 pm

Some of the companies which collapsed or moved abroad. Direct repercussions of the 2016 referendum:

Dyson (Ahead of Britain’s departure from the EU, the chairman of Dyson announced that his firm would move its headquarters to Singapore)
Honda (The car giant announced the closure of its Swindon plant in May, getting rid of 3500 jobs by 2021)
Ford (The company closed its plant at Bridgend, which resulted in 1,700 job losses)
Barclays (The bank has moved £166bn worth of assets from the UK to Ireland)
Panasonic (Moved its European headquarters from the UK to Amsterdam)
P&O (Shifted the registration of its UK vessels to Cyprus)
Sony (Moving European headquarters from the UK to the Netherlands)
AXA (Moved UK staff to Republic due to Brexit)
UBS (Moved €32 billion)
EBA (The European Banking Authority (EBA) closed its Canary Wharf office and will re-open in Paris, France)
Schaeffler (Closed two UK plants because of Brexit)
Flybmi (Went bust, cancelling all flights with immediate effect and blamed Brexit as the main cause of its collapse)
EMA (The European Medicines Agency has closed its doors in the UK with the loss of 900 jobs ahead of Brexit)
MoneyGram (Will move its European headquarters out of London to Brussels)
Nissan (Nissan has reversed plans to invest in new manufacturing capacity in the U.K., citing ‘continuing uncertainty’ around Brexit)
Toyota (Toyota has said that it could end U.K. production as early as 2023 if the country leaves the European Union without a deal)
Body Shop (Body Shop will be making staff redundant in the UK as they move some of their operations to Europe, ahead of Brexit
Michelin (Michelin announced plans to close its factory in Dundee in 2020, nearly 50 years after it opened and where 845 people are employed)

Do you want more?

Pedro Dias

20th October 2019 at 11:07 pm

i) Each family to lose £4300 p.a.
Families lost income already
ii) Recession immediately
Economy shrunk already
iii) FTSE would crash
FTSE went down with loss of big companies, being Thomas Cook the latest
iv) Consumer confidence/spending would plummet
People aren’t spending money
v) The city and major co’s would move to mainland Europe
Some already started to move
vi) Huge rise in unemployment
Almost 25000 jobs lost so far due to Brexit circumstances – and UK haven’t left yet
vii) Investor sentiment would collapse
Companies are not investing
viii) Manufacturing would collapse
Won’t collapse but it’s not in good shape either.
ix) Industry would collapse
It started already, by the looks of car manufacturers and aviation industry.
x) There was no intention for an EU army
xi) Get to the back of the “Queue” – Obama
Trump (another liar) won’t be there forever
xii) Emergency Budget if you dare not to do as you’re told!
Operation yellow hammer

And the best of the lot, Cameron’s biggest lie!!
xiii) WW3 would start
You don’t know, no one knows. But with Trump in power and far right movements established in big countries, it might have started already.

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 11:07 pm

Thanks for that reminder.

Jerry Owen

21st October 2019 at 10:25 am

P Dias
Your thirteen points … total bunkum.

Barney Rubble

20th October 2019 at 9:15 pm

Yes, there were plenty of lies and inaccuracies thrown around before the referendum – by the remain side!

Michael Lynch

20th October 2019 at 9:34 pm

More Remainer twaddle.

Christopher Tyson

20th October 2019 at 5:54 pm

‘My name is Karim Amir, and I am an Englishman born and bred, almost. I am often considered to be a funny kind of Englishman, a new breed as it were, having emerged from two old histories. But I don’t care – Englishman I am (though not proud of it), from the South London suburbs and going somewhere’. – The Buddha of Suburbia, Hanif Kureishi

‘I’m a British subject not proud of it, while I carry the burden of shame’ – UB40

When New Labour were promoting UK PLC, I questioned this. Who were the owners and who were the shareholders? If we, the people, were shareholders, could we sell our shares to foreigners or whoever? Some have said that Brexiteers are pushing the UK over the cliff edge. I would argue that it is remainers who are pushing the UK over a cliff edge. I am of West Indian descent, I was born and raised and spent most of my life in South London, I have a strong vested interest in opposing xenophobia, racism and the like. But the idea of ‘belonging’ has been an important concept in my life. When you are young and adolescent you want to belong. Later you might rebel, ‘if you don’t want me around, I don’t want to be around’. There are those who say that I, and others like me, don’t belong, they say ‘just because you were born in a stable, does make you a horse’. I say that my parents were citizens of the British Empire, they held British passports when I was born, this does not impress my detractors either, for them belonging is something deeper, and you know what? They may have a point. When Tebbit contrived his cricket test I suspect he was cleverer than he knew. For those of us of West Indian heritage, we didn’t have much to cheer about, but in cricket ‘we’ were the best in the world. But come on, as it says in the bible we ‘honour our parents’ indeed I like to think that I retain some connection to their respective places of birth.
But this is all by the by, Britain remains a predominantly white country, it is ‘your’ country, it belongs to you, you belong here. I have chosen to belong, to the chagrin of some, I cannot promise you exclusive loyalty, so be it. I’m not convinced by this notion of ‘somewheres or anywheres’. The ‘anywheres’ have somewhere to return to, they have a home and people and connections to return to. The constant and the faithful are taken for granted (that’s in the bible too). You have a country and you should value that, whether I personally belong in it is something that we can discuss, or maybe not. ‘Shame’ are you ashamed of your country? Well some would like to put that on you too, but self-deprecation, that’s kind of British too.

Christopher Tyson

20th October 2019 at 5:57 pm

typo ‘just because you are born in a stable, that doesn’t make you a horse’.

Graham Southern

20th October 2019 at 8:28 pm

Christopher, as a white Englishman I would like to say that if you feel English and love the country despite all its defects, then I consider you as English as myself.

Winston Stanley

20th October 2019 at 9:31 pm

Interesting that you make it an issue of his subjectivity, he has to have certain dispositions toward this country in its old ethnic aspect, the dispositions that you want him to have, in order to belong. Does that go for you too? Can he not be “English” simply b/c he was born here / lives here? Why is his identity conditional on whether you approve of his subjective dispositions?

I do not “feel” English (whatever that means) and neither do I “love” this country “for all its defects”. I suppose that means that I am not English, which is fine b/c I do not claim to be and neither do I want nor need your approval or any identity allotted to me on your conditions.

Feeling bolshy LOL.

Winston Stanley

20th October 2019 at 9:22 pm

“The times they are a changing.”

England was 85.4% white according to the 2011 census (79.8% white British). – 14.6% were Asian or African.

And according to the latest ONS figures, Asian and African mothers born abroad accounted for 9.2% and 4.7% of all live births respectively, and Americas and Caribbean 1.7%. Fathers will account for an additional 3% or so. – A sum of 18.5% or so.

So, if we assume that UK born Asians and Africans have the same fertility rate as the rest (I am pretty sure that it is higher), then to get a figure for all babies born in England, we can add 18.5% to 14.6%, giving a rough sum total of about 33%. So about a third of all babies born in UK in 2018 were African or Asian.

It reminds me of the Woody Guthrie song, “this land is your land”. It may not quite yet belong to all of us equally but it soon will do. There is no need to “feel” English or to “belong” to England. Those concepts are passing anyway. It is understandable that the older generation might feel that sort of stuff is important but I doubt that the youngsters could care less one way or the other (pretty sure polls bear that out.)

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 2:51 pm

“The People’s Vote” is oldspeak. It is now “The Final Say”. Not so many letters and syllables away from “The Final Solution”, and born of the same impulse, as they become ever more emboldened.

Mike Ellwood

21st October 2019 at 12:21 pm

Yes, I think they might have dropped “People’s Vote” when we started referring to 2016 as The People’s Vote of 2016, and then they realised how ridiculous “People’s Vote” sounded when they meant a 2nd referendum.

But of course the Final Vote won’t be final if it gives the “wrong” answer.

Jerry Owen

20th October 2019 at 2:20 pm

It can only be the Brexit Party now . A vote for any other party is signing away our democracy.
Let’s have an extension to the 31st a general election and vote the anti Democrats out. There is no other way forward now.

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 2:57 pm

Boris Johnson’s remainclinations become more obvious by the day, as he tries to pass off remain in Brexit clothing.
Michael Gove on the other hand describes the process you outline as being just another step in the negotiations. He has fighting spirit, but is battling for the wrong Party. No wonder he was manoeuvred out of the leadership contest.

Stef Steer

20th October 2019 at 5:04 pm

In my ideal world we get a party that says “I know you don’t trust politicians so my pledge is complete reform of the constitution where like switzerland people decide when we have referenda and people can recall MPs if they get say 50% of their constituents signing a recall petition.”

The Brexit party is really the only party that can say this as effectively what they would be saying is vote us in so we can remove power from parliament and give it directly to the people. It would only be something game changing like this in first past the post that could get the Brexit Party from no seats to a majority and then it would be a very long shot.

At the moment though this remains a fantasy as its not on any party’s agenda to reform the constitution in the people’s favour if at all it is just in the executive’s.

Paul Carlin

20th October 2019 at 2:20 pm

Excellent speech. Bravo.

Dominic Straiton

20th October 2019 at 1:49 pm

When it comes to it Chiswick will have no chance against Canning Town

cliff resnick

20th October 2019 at 1:49 pm

It’s a battle of democracy (individual votes being equal vs technocracy), It’s a conflict that is the poltical paradigm of of the age. Not so different from what is happening in Hong Kong

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 3:04 pm

What we can do for Hong Kong and other such people around the world is to fight and win.

Steve Roberts

20th October 2019 at 1:32 pm

Political leadership of the highest order, on the side of the democratic citizens of this nation, leavers or remainers, we should pull together now and stop this dictatorial political class and establishment. Message to the Brexit Party, get with this, fight the tories, the LP, the Lib dems and all the others who are denying our democratic instruction, no compromise, no deals, lets take on the antidemocrats everywhere in every constituency, that is the role TBP must make now ,stop equivocating with the Johnsons of this world ,he has made it as clear as can be he wants to thwart our brexit.

Jim Lawrie

20th October 2019 at 3:32 pm

Some of the opinion polls still do not list The Brexit Party as an option. They only include it to the extent that interviewees mention it as their preference.
Looking at the polls in detail, 40% are reserving judgement on the deal until they can digest what it is. People are undecided, but more politicised, and more set on looking at things. It also looks like turnout will be high for any vote.

Jill W

20th October 2019 at 1:18 pm

Yes

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