‘We’ve been branded “hateful” for defending women’s rights’

Lucy Masoud on Labour’s dangerous capitulation to trans ideology.

spiked

Three of the four candidates for the Labour leadership have signed a controversial pledge card drawn up by the Labour Campaign for Trans Rights (LCTR). Some of the 12 pledges include ‘accepting’ that ‘that trans women are women, trans men are men, and non-binary people are non-binary’ and that ‘there is no material conflict between trans rights and women’s rights’. The pledge card also calls on Labour to expel ‘transphobic’ members from the party and for candidates to ‘fight against’ what it calls ‘hate groups’ such as Woman’s Place UK and LGB Alliance – groups which were established to defend women’s and lesbians’ rights against an increasingly authoritarian transgender movement. Lucy Masoud is a former firefighter and trade unionist, who has spoken at Woman’s Place UK meetings. spiked caught up with her to find out more.

spiked: What did you make of the LCTR pledge?

Lucy Masoud: When I first saw it, I assumed it had been put together by overactive teenagers. But then Angela Rayner signed it and Rebecca Long-Bailey signed it, and more and more started to sign it. I am utterly astounded. Firstly with the tone and the aggression of the statements. It shows no attempt to understand the view of females in this debate and where we are coming from.

Secondly, I was astounded that it name-checked Woman’s Place UK and the LGB Alliance as ‘hate groups’. To suggest that those involved in those groups should be expelled is nothing short of ludicrous. We are talking about people like Kiri Tunks and Ruth Serwotka. These are giants of the trade-union movement. These are people who have been fighting for the socialist cause their whole adult lives. They have dedicated their lives to fighting for LGBT rights, for people of colour, for women, and for the working class. And for them to be threatened with expulsion! The people making those threats are not fit to lick their boots.

Calling us ‘transphobic’ or a ‘hate group’ completely misses the point of the debate and fails to recognise what our argument is. We are not anti-trans. We fight for the rights of trans people. But we are also fighting for the rights of females. And the whole reason Woman’s Place UK was founded was to protect the single-sex exemption in the Equalities Act. We are called a ‘hate group’ simply for trying to protect female-only spaces, for saying that we want domestic violence centres, refugee centres and centres for the victims of sexual violence to remain female-only. It shows those people’s political naivety and downright dishonesty.

The labour movement has a long and proud history of people with different ideas, different opinions, being able to hash those ideas out and come to some kind of an agreement. And if you don’t come to an agreement, that’s fine, we carry on. But for us to be singled out in this way is unbelievable.

spiked: One of the pledges calls for Labour leadership candidates to accept that there is no material conflict between trans rights and women’s rights. Is there a conflict?

Masoud: There is absolutely a conflict when you have this mantra of ‘trans women are women’ being forced down your throat. We should be having a conversation. I do not believe trans women are women because I believe in biology. Some people do believe that and we should be able to have that conversation. To say there is no conflict between trans rights and female rights, is basically saying that trans women and females are the same. And they are not.

Being trans doesn’t mean what it used to mean five years ago. We wouldn’t even be having this conversation because back then being trans meant ‘transsexual’. Now trans is an umbrella term. It basically covers anyone who feels that they are a woman. They could even present as a man and make no attempt to be a female. They could have all the benefits of being male, but if they feel like a woman, that apparently makes them a woman.

The LCTR pledge calls for such people to be accepted legally as women and to be allowed into female-only spaces, which is of course is very concerning for women like myself. I don’t want to have to go into certain areas that are female-only and be faced with a male-bodied individual.

From my own personal experience of working on a fire station for 12 years, females fought tooth and nail to get female living facilities on fire stations. For decades we didn’t have them. We had to share our dormitories and showers with men. Many women left the job because they didn’t feel comfortable getting changed with men or sleeping in the dormitories with men. There was also a culture there where women felt ostracised, even bullied sometimes. Female firefighters would often end up sleeping in their cars or getting changed in offices, and ultimately leaving the job.

Eventually, we managed to secure female-only facilities on every fire station in London. And that’s essential. They need this when they’ve been out on a big job and they come back and they need a shower, or it’s a night shift and they are sleeping in dormitories. Women need to have their own space. And now that’s being threatened because anyone who self-identifies as a female would be able to have access to those spaces.

Now we’re also allowing male-bodied individuals to use the female-only changing space at the Hampstead Heath swimming ponds. Women are using the shower at six o’clock in the morning, and they’re having to stand next to people with penises. Muslim women who have joined a female-only gym are not going to use those gyms anymore because they can’t be sure that at any given time someone male isn’t going to walk into the changing room. People can no longer be sure that their children, when they are getting changed or in a shower area, aren’t going to be presented with a male-bodied individual.

So there is a massive conflict. A frank, honest and open discussion needs to be had because there has to be a compromise out there. But Labour is not even allowing us to have that discussion. It is saying that if you even step out of the echo-chamber view that trans women are women, or if you think that female rights need to be protected and not include men, then we will be expelled from the party that we have campaigned for our whole adult lives.

spiked: Is there a misogynistic element in the attacks on trans-critical feminists?

Masoud: For sure. This argument isn’t coming from trans men, it is mostly from trans women and their supporters, though many trans women agree with us too, like Debbie Hayton and Kristina Harrison.

It is generally not transsexuals but usually people under this ridiculous umbrella term of trans who are attacking us. It is those who think anyone who is non-binary, genderfluid, pansexual or whatever could be deemed to be a woman even if they are clearly a male, present as male and have male genitalia. They are quite a small minority but they have a lot of supporters. And they are the ones hijacking this agenda.

And it is very misogynistic. Women are going to be impacted by this. But we are being completely shouted down. We are being told that they know better than us and that our rights aren’t as important. If you listen to us, we can tell you why trans rights and women’s rights conflict. We can tell you that a female who’s been the victim of sexual abuse and rape may not want to share a centre for sexual violence with someone who is male-bodied, and that little children or teenagers may not want to share shower space with a full-bodied male.

As a lesbian, I do not want to include trans women in my dating circle because I am attracted to females. That’s what makes me a lesbian. And I should not have to be bullied and forced to accept trans women into my dating circle. But if I don’t, I’m cast as transphobic.

It’s funny because it is also homophobia. We are basically being told that there’s no such thing as same-sex attraction. We are being told that gender identity is what matters and we shouldn’t discriminate based on sex. But that is what makes me a lesbian. I discriminate against men. I do not have sex with them. But now I’m being told that is not okay anymore and my sexual preferences should not be based on sex. To me, that is pure homophobia.

spiked: Can Labour survive if it antagonises women in this way?

Masoud: It hasn’t got a future if it carries on down its current path. It has learned no lessons from the General Election. It had a disastrous policy on Brexit. It ignored the working-class voter and trumpeted the second-referendum nonsense and we saw where that got them. What Labour is doing now is alienating 51 per cent of the population and they don’t care.

I keep thinking about why the hell any Labour leadership candidate would want to sign this pledge. They know there will be a backlash. They have seen the #ExpelMe hashtag sweep Twitter. So why do they do it?

Most likely it is because they know they’re not likely to win the next election in five years’ time, or the one after that, either. So they’re not thinking about winning elections or winning over the general public. All they are thinking about is appealing to the Labour membership who they think will gobble this up.

Each candidate wants to be the most woke. They are appealing to this tiny, tiny minority of the electorate that is obsessed with identity politics. But they do not realise the damage they are doing. I didn’t even vote Labour at the last election and I’ve been a Labour member my whole life. And for someone like me not to vote Labour means it has a massive problem.

Lucy Masoud was talking to Fraser Myers.

To enquire about republishing spiked’s content, a right to reply or to request a correction, please contact the managing editor, Viv Regan.

Comments

Peter McKenna

20th February 2020 at 7:49 pm

I agree with everything Lucy says. Except “people can no longer be sure that their children, when they are getting changed or in a shower area, aren’t going to be presented with a male-bodied individual:: “people” includes fathers.

Lauder Eric

19th February 2020 at 12:08 am

@Zenobia Palmyra: not sure, but perhaps arresting women who wear trousers was the right thing.
Let’s not forget it: men in dresses aren’t women, women in trousers aren’t men. Then why pretending?
It’s insulting to men. Why should men tolerate that?
After all, men are men, women are women.

Jill W

17th February 2020 at 8:30 pm

Straw man arguments are setting the tone for some of the comments.
Premise, many women are feminists. An extremely small proportion of feminists are radical, hate men, enjoy getting them fired, deny men their spaces. Conclusion all women had it coming. They do not deserve their spaces. Schadenfreude.
The reality is that most women and many men have proven capable of striving for equal rights whilst caring deeply for each other.
In this current debate I am concerned that self-identified trans, male bodied, women will share safe spaces, shower areas etc, with women. We are not talking about sharing a bar or a club.
But, of course, you know that.

Lauder Eric

18th February 2020 at 4:50 pm

We’re now beginning the slippery slope: since S piked embraced the radical feminist line, they’ll have to censor dissenting comments to keep afloat such line.

So they’ll become what they were supposed to fight against.

The same thing happened to the left.

Lauder Eric

18th February 2020 at 10:09 pm

And still the direct answer to Jill doesn’t appear…
Why I’m not surprised?
So predictable…

Lauder Eric

19th February 2020 at 12:14 am

Actually all feminists are against, and always have been against, men-only spaces.

I’m going to show it:

“The reality is that most women and many men have proven capable of striving for equal rights whilst caring deeply for each other.”

“In this current debate I am concerned that self-identified trans, male bodied, women will share safe spaces, shower areas etc, with women.”

Therefore your previous point is invalid, because you don’t care about transmen into men-only spaces.

I also notice “most women” as opposed to “many men”.

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 10:39 am

Those are the same people who asked for – and got – the firings of Alessandro Strumia and James Damore, even if they used data to show general tendencies.

Now they blabber about “free speech”.

Female-only spaces are just only due hatred of men.
Those are the same people who oppose male-only spaces.

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 1:24 am

Those are the same people who asked for – and got – the firings of Alessandro Strumia and James Damore, even if they used data to show general tendencies.

Now they blabber about “free speech”.

Female-only spaces are born out of hatred of men.
Those are the same people who oppose male-only spaces.

Identity Redacted

16th February 2020 at 11:48 pm

“ We fight for the rights of trans people. But we are also fighting for the rights of females”

Would be faster to say ‘anyone but men’

“We are called a ‘hate group’ simply for trying to protect female-only spaces, for saying that we want domestic violence centres, refugee centres and centres for the victims of sexual violence to remain female-only”

Men’s groups are called hate groups for defending Male-only spaces, why should you be any different? Those spaces absolutely shouldn’t remain female-only. Men are victims of all those crimes and in much bigger numbers than women’s groups will allow to be known and receive almost no support spaces or funding

“They could have all the benefits of being male, but if they feel like a woman, that apparently makes them a woman.”

What benefits? She just admitted women’s preferential treatment is being threatened.

Bottom line is the transgender issue isn’t an attack on women as she believes and touts. It also alllow biological women into men-toilets and men’s changing rooms and other men’s spaces BUT it is only ever framed as and discussed as tranwomen in women’s spaces and never as trasnmen in men’s spces. The fact that is discussed as such disproves her patriarchal beliefs

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 3:02 pm

Exactly, you nailed it.

Lauder Eric

16th February 2020 at 11:01 pm

Those are the same people who asked for – and got – the firings of Alessandro Strumia and James Damore, even if they used data to show general tendencies.

Now they blabber about “free speech”.

Female-only spaces are feminazis.
Those are the same people who oppose male-only spaces.

domisit domisit

16th February 2020 at 6:54 pm

I am making a good pay from home 1900 Buckets/week, that is brilliant, beneath a year ago i used to be unemployed amid a monstrous economy. I pass on God consistently i used to be invested these bearings, and at present, I should pay it forward and impart it to everyone, Here is I started to…………   www.mywork5.com

Forlorn Dream

16th February 2020 at 5:45 pm

This is hilarious, I’m seriously enjoying the show. Watching two hateful groups rip each other apart is so much fun.

Danny Rees

16th February 2020 at 2:42 pm

Or rather one group of people want the freedom to say whatever they like about another group of people without that group of people responding and criticising them.

And if they can’t they shall scream and scream until they puke.

Neil McCaughan

16th February 2020 at 1:42 pm

Did any two more obnoxious, more hysterical, more self-absorbed, more destructive groups of nutters deserve each other as much as feminists and blokes in frocks?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:26 pm

What about model railway enthusiasts and freemasons?

Neil McCaughan

16th February 2020 at 11:02 pm

Try to get some oxygen to your brain.

Gordon T Gopher

16th February 2020 at 1:28 pm

Maybe if feminists hadn’t encroached so much on men-only spaces, men wouldn’t have to dress up as women and hang out in your gaffs.

I don’t get a kick out of wearing tights ya know!!

Well, maybe just a bit…..

Gordon T Gopher

16th February 2020 at 2:14 pm

Anyway why shouldn’t men wear women’s clothes? You’ve got way more choice then we have. And not only that but to get to the men’s paltry section I’ve got to battle halfway through your bit to get to the escalator and then even once upstairs got to go through your underwear and the kids section to get to our pathetic corner!

Maybe in their desire for gender equality, feminists could demand the sections are swapped round and women get a choice of three ill-fitting dresses and a couple of tops (which they’ll probably find their size strewn on the floor). Let’s see how popular feminism is with normal women then…!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:36 pm

A woman would have been arrested for wearing trousers in public in the UK until about the time of WWI. A woman wearing trousers in public would, in most ages and places, have been considered a transvestite. The social transformation and shift in gender roles (feminisation of society) has been massive. Paris only recently removed the local legislation banning women from wearing trousers in public from their statute books although, of course, the law had not been used to prosecute anyone for decades.

steve moxon

16th February 2020 at 10:03 am

Becky Wrong-Daily currently being crucified by Andrew Marr on BBC1 on this issue.
Marr challenged her signing up to a vehement line against ‘trans’-‘phobia’ that deems several feminist groups as “hate groups”, and — as he pointed out — would see Jess Phillips expelled form Liebore.
[Of course, ALL feminist groups are ‘hate groups’; they’re virulently so; but here they’re talking about the ‘trans’-exclusionary (TERF) position, but which is now a mainstream feminist line — hating male-to-female ‘trans’; not female-to-male ones, you understand!]
Wrong-Daily here nails her screwed-up visage to the whole shebang.
It’s war.
Hee heeBecky Wrong-Daily currently being crucified by Andrew Marr on BBC1 on this issue.
Marr challenged her signing up to a vehement line against ‘trans’-‘phobia’ that deems several feminist groups as “hate groups”, and — as he pointed out — would see Jess Phillips expelled form Liebore.
[Of course, ALL feminist groups are ‘hate groups’; they’re virulently so; but here they’re talking about the ‘trans’-exclusionary (TERF) position, but which is now a mainstream feminist line — hating male-to-female ‘trans’; not female-to-male ones, you understand!]
Wrong-Daily here nails her screwed-up visage to the whole shebang.
It’s war.
Hee hee

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:37 am

Perhaps the extreme feminists who see the ‘patriarchy’ behind every bad thing in the world will take this experience as a cue for some self-reflection concerning bigotry and self-righteous intolerance.
But then again, perhaps not.

Hanna GWard

16th February 2020 at 3:43 am

I am making a good pay from home 1900 Buckets/week, that is brilliant, beneath a year ago i used to be unemployed amid a monstrous economy. I pass on God consistently i used to be invested these bearings, and at present, I should pay it forward and impart it to everyone, Here is I started to…. Read more

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:46 am

Use your good pay to learn proper English.

jessica christon

15th February 2020 at 6:40 pm

What’s the connection with the photo of the Grenfell march?

Ros Beck

15th February 2020 at 12:04 pm

I think a key issue is that people born male take precedence – hence the problem being that it is ‘women’ who used to be men who seem to have the issues re wanting to be in women-only spaces. This has never been a comfortable position for straight or lesbian women. My lesbian boss decades ago would not consider a trans woman for a position in a women-only supported house where most of the women had been sexually-abused. She just put the job application in the rejected file and no-one needed to know. The safety and feeling of security of the clients was, rightly, considered to be of the most importance. It wouldn’t take priority now in many fields. The person born male would be the important one.
In addition, I would tie this is with the approach to Phillip Schofield – here another example of the male taking precedence with practically no concern in the mainstream articles and the BBC for the woman and children lied to and used, with their lives stolen from them. The gay man trumps the woman every time. This is not necessarily the view of the public as is seen in comments under these articles – but the journalists (with the exception of Brendan O’Neill here) are too cowardly to risk defending the position of women. So there is no conversation on how men wreck women’s lives when they use them for their own ends – the height of misogyny from gay men. This should also be exposed and critiqued – even many women side with lying, cheating, narcisstic gay men against straight wives.

Gordon T Gopher

16th February 2020 at 1:14 pm

Women tend to use better quality shampoos and conditioners so you can’t really blame men for wanting to use their showers.

Not only that but Mrs Gopher says she quite likes the idea of sleeping with a load of firemen.

Rubbish article.

Gordon T Gopher

16th February 2020 at 1:18 pm

Ps I saw plenty of support for Schofield’s wife. Not one bloody mention of me though – having to spend all those years with his hand up my backside.

Gophers’ Rights!!!!!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:38 pm

Bitter much, Ros?

Identity Redacted

16th February 2020 at 11:54 pm

How is it male taking precedence when they’re trying to restrict biological males and not females? These TERFs don’t give a fig about transmen waltzing into men’s changing rooms because they only care about women not equality

Identity Redacted

16th February 2020 at 11:59 pm

Schofield like many men of that age aren’t misogynistic (which is a hatred of ALL women btw) at all. They married and had kids and pretended to be straight not to hurt the woman but because back then coming out meant actual oppression and hatred not celebration

Tracee Aguirre

15th February 2020 at 9:54 am

I am making a good MONEY (500$ to 700$ / hr )online on my Ipad .Last month my pay check of nearly 30 k$.This online work is like draw straight-arrow and earn money.Do not go to office.I do not claim to be others,I just work.You will call yourself after doing this JOB,It’s a REAL job.Will be very lucky to refer to this WEBSITE.I hope,you can find something,Simply go to the below SITE.
………>>>>>>www.cash61.com  

Jill W

15th February 2020 at 9:45 am

Whatever their identity, the majority of people who are pioneers, activists for change and justice, are reasoned and tough, not fanatics or extremists.
By contrast, bullishness imposes. It simplifies. It has no manners or consideration. It thrives on an enemy. It succeeds through indifference and complacency.
Around complex issues most of us, restrained by busy lives, are not experts. As voters, in an information saturated world, it is becoming more challenging to stay engaged with politics. But, at this time, awareness is seminal.
Talking of which, I took my eye off the ball until I woke up about 6 years ago and am now an ex- Labour voter.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

15th February 2020 at 10:12 am

Unfortunately, the Johnsonian alternative is not much better – Londoncentric rentier capitalism run by a proven opportunist and liar. HS2 just proves the extent of corruption in this joke of a country. Reject the Labour idiots, by all means, but brace the Party of Mammon at your peril.

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:32 am

So it’s the Greens for you, Zenobia? Or the Brexit party?

The Killgrave

16th February 2020 at 12:53 pm

Probably whatever party her husband tells her to vote for

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 1:36 pm

GRAHAM SOUTHERN — Don’t vote at all!

Dean 61

15th February 2020 at 8:31 am

What is really chilling is that today I can be a member of the tyrannical patriarchy, bursting with toxic masculinity and a hate figure for the woke stormtroopers. Tomorrow I can slip on a Primark dress and heels, utter my preferred pronouns and am suddenly embraced by the same stormtroopers as a person of extreme vulnerability who they will protect to their dying breath.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

15th February 2020 at 10:15 am

Nothing like hyperbole, is there?

Stephen Kenny

15th February 2020 at 6:07 pm

or truth.

Joseph Brown

16th February 2020 at 1:56 pm

You should know. You’ve got it down to a fine art.

taroci5646 taroci5646

15th February 2020 at 5:38 am

Getting paid every month easily more than $15k just by doing simple job online. Last month i have exactly received $16839 from this online job just by giving this 2 hrs a day online. Now everybody on this earth can get this job and start earning more cash online just by follow instructions here……..for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lotCopy Here….,.’;;;……>>www.richfly2.com

Hana Chelache

15th February 2020 at 1:28 am

Good article and I genuinely sympathise. Shame Lucy Masoud branded the Council of Ex-Muslims “hateful” for defending apostate rights at Pride back in 2017. 🙁

https://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/tag/hate/

Michael Green

15th February 2020 at 12:59 am

It’s all about power. If you can force people to accept a man is a woman and a woman is a man, you can force them to accept anything.

juliusB

15th February 2020 at 12:50 am

I wish ZP would tell us where she lives. Frequently refers to the U.K. as though she lives somewhere else and yet despises so much about every aspect past and present. Am I correct in assuming that there is a ZP Utopia somewhere?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:32 pm

There is no utopia. Utopia means, literally, no place.

Brandy Cluster

14th February 2020 at 9:21 pm

The last thing in the world my husband and I need is to hear about women’s ‘rights’ when we have two sons going through the divorce court (laughingly called ‘no fault’ divorce) and being stripped of the rights to see their children apart from token arrangements and of all their property. And one his self-esteem when he was falsely accused of violence (the very last person in the world to be violent!). Yesterday I was watching a doco about the actor of the golden years Edward G. Robinson and it said he endured ‘a very costly divorce’ in the 1940s. Robinson was an art collector and he lost most of it to pay his wife – who sat at home and had one child. This story is repeated over and over and over and over, and once there was alimony – which was a blight on the developed world. So, no sympathies for females WHATSOEVER as they are very often the agents of their own misery, enabled and supported by ‘the system’.

steve moxon

14th February 2020 at 11:24 pm

It astonishes me how there isn’t a huge rate of (ex-)partner murder as a result of this, but then partner violence essentially is a female-perpetrated phenomenon.

juliusB

15th February 2020 at 7:03 am

Do you mean that when a woman is beaten or murdered by a man it is her own fault?

jessica christon

15th February 2020 at 9:11 am

@Julius – Yes, that’s what he means. Just like Boris Johnson meant Jo Cox’s murder was “humbug”.

Jess Phillips has taught you well – you’ll be laughing at male suicide next!

Jim Lawrie

15th February 2020 at 11:41 am

No. You know fine well he means females are more often the aggressors, but choose a strawman, in extremis case where the man is at fault in the belief that you can deflect from what he says and avoid dealing with it. Physical differences mean different physical consequences. But for these purposes, men are lumps of wood who can therefore suffer no mental or emotional damage.
More women would murder if not for the fact it might reduce the calculated financial settlement they expect.

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 3:07 pm

Lady, an humble suggestion: when it’ll end, don’t pressure them to find “a good woman”, let them decide, they’re adults.
Most times divorced men who have been gone through such things are much better off without a serious relationship.

steve moxon

14th February 2020 at 9:05 pm

Isn’t it delicious?!
The femascists don’t even seem to realise that this battle goes to the heart of their idiotic incoherence over whether the sexes are absolutely identical or irrevocably different.
They claim one or the other at different times, and both at one and the same time.
Get out the beer and the crisps, sit back and enjoy.

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 7:45 pm

It’s called “three shells game” and they’re likely to win, because the femafascists are masters at the three shells game.
Just look at this publication: a couple of years ago it was among the most respectable sources to cite in an anti-feminist article, now it’s being cited by radfems and hosts commentators like mancheeze who want reduce male population to 20% of humanity. They have totally lost any common sense and spout radfem narrative, they also encourage people to infringe laws “to protect wimmin”.
And this is the effect on a publication whose moral integrity before was taken granted, now they sound like hysterical man-haters in every article about trans. Notice: countless articles and not even a single word on transmen “invading” male spaces, not a single word about “men have the right to men-only spaces”.
IMHO in the long run the trans are unilkely to succeed and radical feminism will be reinforced.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 8:31 pm

I fail to see why a so-called ‘m to f transsexual’ who has been raped should not be allowed into a women’s rape support group or centre.

steve moxon

14th February 2020 at 9:13 pm

Because feminists hate all males, and m>f TS, even after the op, remain visibly male through the irreversible impacts of some of the effects of testosterone.
Feminists don’t in the least mind f>m TS because they consider this a woman’s right to choose. [Cf, women artists depicting nudity is OK by femascists, whereas male artists depicting nudity are deemed by femascists to be oppressing women, either by supposedly demeaning them in painting female nudes, or exhibiting their supposed patrimularcky dominance in painting male ones.]

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 11:31 pm

‘remain visibly male through the irreversible impacts of some of the effects of testosterone.’ — You haven’t met many tg people have you?

juliusB

15th February 2020 at 7:00 am

By “visibly male” I think you’re referring to the muscular and skeletal structure of the male body such as broad shoulders, narrow hips, large hands and feet, heavier brow ridge and jaw, larger muscles etc? Certainly all these are impossible to change even with years of hormone treatment. Even the voice is usually recognisably male.

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:43 am

It’s simple, Zenobia. By allowing an anatomical male who claims to have been raped into a rape centre, you are literally opening the door to any predatory man who gets a kick out of intimidating women – or worse.
Is your naivety an act, or have you really not engaged your brain?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:30 pm

I was thinking more of allowing post-op m to f tg people who have been raped into women’s rape crisis centres, not anatomically male tg people, which would clearly be madness.

Lauder Eric

17th February 2020 at 1:23 am

Because men and not even children over 12 are allowed in.
Due feminists hate all men.

James Knight

14th February 2020 at 8:12 pm

Labour descends into post truth politics.

Ho Leephuc

14th February 2020 at 7:11 pm

What goes around comes around.
I love to see the left eat itself.

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:49 am

Yes, we should revel in it. Unfortunately, ordinary women will also suffer from allowing men into rape centres and women’s prisons.

Mark Houghton

14th February 2020 at 6:11 pm

As someone who despises socialism I think this suicidal infighting is simply marvellous.

jessica christon

14th February 2020 at 6:09 pm

Cry me a river, love. The times we live in are the product of decades of social engineering by feminists and the ID left, so if you don’t like it you’ve noone but yourselves to blame.

Brandy Cluster

14th February 2020 at 9:22 pm

Yes, the schadenfreude is simply delicious.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

15th February 2020 at 10:14 am

I agree. The shouty radical feminists have brought this upon themselves.

steven brook

14th February 2020 at 5:07 pm

Well I for one am delighted with this unexpected development. I never thought for a moment that a middle-aged bloke like me could ever become a lesbian but now that goal is within my grasp (my wife isn’t that keen for some reason). Hopefully other things I’d like to be, astronaut, international playboy etc are on the horizon, it’s a great time to be alive.

Michael Lynch

14th February 2020 at 3:49 pm

Now you know why underage white girls were deemed mere chattel for Pakistani rape gangs. The disappointment here, of course, is that no modern feminist group screamed blue murder about it. In fact, their unanimous silence was deafening. Instead they chose to champion Hollywood actresses who were desperate to reignite dead careers. The ‘Me Too’ movement was high jacked by a high minded mob who specifically targeted white males and it has done absolutely nothing for the plight of women and girls who really suffer horrendous violence on a daily basis. Having said all that, I believe in Women’s equality and have always believed in it. I have a sister and a wife who I love and cherish and I truly believe in their right to enjoy equal participation in this life. To either succeed or fail in the same way that men have to; no less, no more. My nearest and dearest will suffer for this nonsense if fourth wave feminists refuse to take their heads out of the Marxist nosebag. It is ordinary, working class women, not middle class ideologues, who will have to take the brunt of this nonsense.

Jill W

15th February 2020 at 9:40 am

Michael Lynch ‘It is ordinary, working class women, not middle- class ideologues, who will have to take the brunt of this nonsense’
That’ll be me then.
Lucy Masoud ‘They are quite a small minority but they have a lot of supporters. And they are the ones hijacking this agenda’.
It is the hijacking we should fear then. A noisy minority seldom represents.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:28 pm

I strongly suspect most tranners are not activists and are simply keeping their heads down for fear of being shot at.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

15th February 2020 at 7:04 pm

‘I believe in Women’s equality and have always believed in it.’ —- Nice bit of virtue signalling there.

The Killgrave

16th February 2020 at 12:57 pm

The fact that you took that snippet from his post and used it to criticise him says everything about you.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:28 pm

THE KILLGRAVE — Oh no it doesn’t!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:42 pm

How will the women close to you ‘suffer’ if a tiny handful of tg people acquire the legal right to self-identify in a gender role? The number of tg people is vanishingly small. In Ireland and Denmark the law has already been changed to allow self-ID and there appears to be no outcry or opposition whatsoever; nor has there been a flood of male-bodied perverts taking advantage of the law to molest women and invade their female-only spaces.

Ellen Whitaker

14th February 2020 at 3:21 pm

“‘… there is no material conflict between trans rights and women’s rights’”

Labour’s Big Lie.

nick hunt

14th February 2020 at 3:21 pm

Labour and woke leftists are not only creating victim groups with their bigoted and racist labelling, they are also hierarchising said groups. Trans ‘women’ are now greater victims of evil ‘patriarchy’ and western culture than are biological women, and so deserve greater rights and protections. The left fragments here. But a more serious clash of minority groups between those defending LGBT rights and those defending Muslim rights (as currently happening in the Birmingham school protests) will wound Labour and identity politics even more deeply.

Michael Lynch

14th February 2020 at 3:54 pm

When this multiple of ‘purity spirals’ begin to really start grinding against each other in one lumpen group they should eventually cancel each other out. Here’s hoping anyway.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 7:26 pm

Maybe, but that still doesn’t answer the question why the Irish and Danish have changed the law to allow tg people to self-identify, without any of the hysteria we are seeing in the media over here…

Michael Lynch

14th February 2020 at 8:06 pm

You’ll find that most of the rural folk over here wouldn’t turn a hair for this sort of stuff. It’s still a very much a Christian/Catholic society and also a very family orientated culture. Mass is still regularly attended as the rural Irish seem to have largely forgiven the Catholic Church with Pope Francis in charge. They are pragmatic, hard working farmers and are largely conservative in their views.

Jurgen Befelshaber

15th February 2020 at 10:21 am

So what you are saying is that none of this is true and that it is the media that is creating this situation and promoting the unrest that has arisen from it … sounds like a case of ‘head, sand and buried’

Weyland Smith

14th February 2020 at 3:08 pm

“These are people who … dedicated their lives to fighting for LGBT rights, for people of colour, for women, and for the working class.”
Interesting how far down the billing … and let’s not forget them … ‘the working class’ gets a mention

juliusB

15th February 2020 at 12:53 am

And women (real ones!) second from last!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 2:53 pm

I think the percentage of articles on this issue on the S piked website should be limited to 90% at any one time.

Tim Knight

14th February 2020 at 3:19 pm

Other web sites are available.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 7:23 pm

Ah no, this one is fun and some of the articles are occasionally interesting, but there does seem to be a near-hysterical obsession with the so-called trans issues. The trannies are on the ramparts and we must repel them!

Ven Oods

14th February 2020 at 3:37 pm

Nice sarcasm, ZP. There are a lot of such articles here…. but –
For my own part, I found this article more interesting than most about the subject, primarily because it maintained a reasoned and reasonable tenor throughout.
I can understand why biological women feel threatened by this (and I don’t consider myself to be Mr Empathy, by any means).
It’ll be interesting to see how it all pans out, but I doubt it’ll do much for Labour. (I wonder which of the leadership candidates didn’t sign, though I think I can guess.)

Jurgen Befelshaber

15th February 2020 at 10:24 am

In answer to your wonderment I can inform you that it is the shadow foreign secretary Ms Thornberry, she didn’t sign up to this … regardless of what you may think of her (and I was rather hoping she would do better for other reasons) She wasn’t going to be bulldozed into this nonsense … I wonder if St Keir of Starmer has 😉

Jerry Owen

14th February 2020 at 5:32 pm

How about discussing the merits of the expansionist EU empire then ?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 7:22 pm

How about a rational defence of your unelected head of state and unelected upper legislative chamber with hereditary peers and religious prelates!

David McAdam

14th February 2020 at 2:45 pm

Not only was I a member of this once rational Party, an irrational antic like this also ensures I will never vote for it again.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 8:32 pm

Well, in England it’s either the Irrational Party or the Mammon Party. That is a very ugly choice indeed.

Graham Southern

16th February 2020 at 9:50 am

No Zeb, you can vote for a whole bunch of nutty parties. I’m guessing the SWP is up your ally, am I right?

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 1:37 pm

GRAHAM SOUTHERN — I voted SNP while living in Scotland. In England I am effectively disenfranchised.

paniwe8735 paniwe8735

14th February 2020 at 2:19 pm

Getting paid every month easily more than $15k just by doing simple job online. Last month i have exactly received $16839 from this online job just by giving this 2 hrs a day online. Now everybody on this earth can get this job and start earning more cash online just by follow instructions here……..for more info visit any tab this site Thanks a lotCopy Here……,…>>www.richfly2.com

Gareth Edward KING

14th February 2020 at 1:55 pm

Why bother with the Labour Party? After last December’s historical defeat, the never-ending and utterly irrelevant leadership ‘battle’ and their general cloth-earedness. Those who regard themselves as left-wing but certainly not ‘woke’ should vote with their feet and simply abandon.

nick hunt

14th February 2020 at 3:08 pm

Left-wingers need to get serious about talk of power to the people, which means abandoning the insanity of Labour’s identity politics and understanding that growing and renewing UK democracy will restore to plebs their only real power to limit or vote out failing or unwanted politicians and their policies. Leftists need to overcome their superstitious fear of patriotism and tradition, and talk about ‘Britons’ like Trump says ‘Americans First’. They should join Farage, show they care about democracy and all voters, and fight against the globalist nowhere elitists. In other words, they need to become leftist populists, rejoin their nation and help unify it. I know that all that sounds impossible, but aren’t Sinn Fein showing the way? Didn’t Corbyn stupidly throw away a golden opportunity to win over the British people and even consign the Conservatives to history, because he betrayed UK voters and independence in favour of continuing EU control?

Jim Lawrie

14th February 2020 at 1:17 pm

The trans lot have used the same grievance and perpetual victim tactics and strategy as other identity groups. They have usurped and then vaulted ahead of whingeing, middle class women who make a profession of their sex. Too bad.
Lesbians are worst affected because insist on the right to exclude men from what they call their spaces, but want access to male places like pubs, pool halls, golf clubs and bars for gay men. All set up by men for men. They then set about the task of making men, particularly young men, uncomfortable in these former male spaces.
Don’t complain when others do unto you what you have done unto others. Or admit you were wrong if you want men to support you.

Tell me Ms Yasoud, do you agree with male only pool halls and bars for gay men only?

Geoff Cox

14th February 2020 at 1:13 pm

The world of the woke gender rights activists is a pandora’s box of unintended consequences. We’d do well to go back to two sexes, two genders and (a very small) number of people ducking and diving inbetween but who don’t bother the rest of us.

Michael Lynch

14th February 2020 at 3:58 pm

Nicely put. Back to the common sense world of my youth.

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

14th February 2020 at 7:24 pm

‘ the common sense world of my youth’ — does that include the casual racism, homophobia and misogyny?

Jerry Owen

14th February 2020 at 5:35 pm

Very well said!

ZENOBIA PALMYRA

16th February 2020 at 10:42 pm

Bring back hanging and the Korean War!

Leave a comment

You must be logged in to comment. Log in or Register now.